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You’re listening to the slumber party podcast with your host Amanda Jewson, a mom of two girls, a child and infant sleep expert and general sleep lover. If you’re a tired parent who is desperate for answers, or just someone who loves sleep, this podcast was created just for you. Each episode is packed full of tips and tricks to help you maintain your sanity, as well as your social life during the early stages of parenthood. So grab your headphones, it’s time to get comfy.
Alright, hello, everybody and welcome to the slumber party podcast. I’m Amanda Jewson. Today, I’m super excited that our expert guest I feel so connected to this topic, I invited Kelly Haller from the tidy rival tidy rebel to come and talk to us today. She teaches tired overwhelmed women how to get organized both in their homes and in their lives. To specifically prioritize rest and self care. Sound familiar? My focus or her focus is on dispelling myths, Bs rules and limiting beliefs that have us on the hamster wheel of exhaustion. She’s not about wasting time and energy on appearances, busy work and the trendiest new solutions. She’s about uncovering what got you there in the first place. Welcome, Kelly.
Thank you. It’s so nice to be here. It sounds like we both have the same focus, actually.
Well, it’s so yeah, I feel like we’re kinda, yeah, people who do any sort of work in this way I feel always have their own backstory. And I’ve told mine a million times on this, which is like, sleep has always been a priority for me. And it’s funny, like, Thank God because I would I am a recovering busy person, and I’m not anymore I refuse to be. But it sounds like and why wanted to have you on for sure is like you might have been that person and it might have come out in different ways for you. And I think I know for myself tidiness, organization, neatness, I would not, I would not classify myself as type A, I would not even classify, I seem like I’m a Type B plus, I can have typing tendencies. But I can also deal with a little bit of mess. I also can’t catch a typo to save my life. I’m okay with like, the just in not like specifics. Do you know what I’m saying? But it does come to tidiness and cleanliness. I saw I started to get itchy. And I and so I’m interested in your experience with this idea of perfectionism and a clean house and and I just want to jump in, tell me everything that you do.
Unknown Speaker 2:59
Okay, so it’s so funny that you say that about being a Type B plus, because I have the same experiences that I’ve never identified with Type A. But when I, when I tell people what I do, and when I work with people, and when people come to my home, they just sort of assume that I’m a type A, because I’m so tidy, but my neuroses doesn’t really feed into anything else, or a lot of other things. It’s just like, it was the thing that I found control over when I was a kid, was by making, you know, order from chaos in my environment. And so, I being organized just as always fit into my neurotic behavior. Like it’s very self satisfying, but I don’t consider myself to be a type in anything else. So I’ve kind of always been I that people
Unknown Speaker 3:53
As What? Sorry,
I think there’s a slight delay, I people who labeled me as like, Oh, you must be type A and or just because I’ve always been someone who’s so busy and productive. And I would get things done and you could rely on me. So in that way that could happen. But I’m not like I can deal with things not being perfect. I mean, I’m not even trying to say that being TP is a bad thing. I just don’t think that no, I’m open to be proven wrong.
Unknown Speaker 4:23
Yeah, totally. I agree. No, there’s nothing wrong with that. I’ve just never really identified with all of the things that type a people typically are, except for maybe the perfectionism aspect, and I never thought I was a perfectionist, until I stopped being a perfectionist. So then I was like, Oh, that’s what my problem was all of those years. It was like I finally got off of the hamster wheel myself, of trying to make everything appear perfect. And kind of stopped caring about caring about the way things looked and I was like, Oh, I was wasting so much energy for So many years, just caring about how things appeared to other people not really about what it did for me. So like growing up, sort of finding, you know, control over my, my environment by organizing was what I did. And that sort of like became a part of my identity, and how other people saw me after a while. So by the time I became an adult, I was like, that’s Kelly. She’s the most organized person we know. So it was like, as part of my persona, and became part of my psyche. And so every job I’ve ever had has been like I lead with, I’m the organized person, I’m going to organize, I’m going to get you so organized, it’s going to be like, everything’s going to be awesome. So I’ve always, like, done everything for everyone else. Because I don’t think anybody else can do it as perfectly as I can do it. Which is a huge problem. Yep. I mean, in general, obviously, it’s a great way to exhaust yourself to think that you’re the only one who can do it the right way. But I never saw that in myself until, you know, a lot of years of self reflection later. And I also never saw in myself that so much of what I was doing, like in my own home, and in my own life, was just that other people saw this version of myself that I so like, identified with as being Kelly, the organized person. So I like I kept up this appearance of being like, you know, if you couldn’t came into my home, I want it to be obvious to you that I’m super organized and super tidy. So like, I couldn’t ever let that facade down. So that perfectionism played out in that way. So yeah, it just became such a part of my persona and my psyche that what I didn’t realize at the time, and it wasn’t until, you know, many cycles of burnout later, that it occurred to me that the whole reason that you want to be organized and tidy in the first place is for like specific benefits that it gets, you like to be less busy, to be less stressed, when you’re organized to be more focused and have less distractions, to waste less time, like all of the benefits that come from being organized. I wasn’t getting any of them because I was spending so much wasting so much energy and time on making it about appearances, like what it looked like to other people.
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I feel like that’s, that’s so interesting. I think a big part of my buisiness was an inability to say no, and it’s that I didn’t want to let anyone else down. Because I had such a great reputation for having this incredible work ethic. Someone who could always like, Oh, yeah, we’ll ask Amanda. She can do it. And then and then you feel like a jerk for saying no, yes. Which perpetuates you saying Yes, I remember. You know, I think I’ve talked about this, the apologies to anyone listening, who’s heard this ad nauseum. But I remember having a session with my therapist, and this business was going off like gangbusters, it was crazy. I was making like more money there than I was teaching. But I felt I talked to my husband I was gonna leave in at the end of the year. And I talked to my boss and blah, blah. And my therapist is like, why don’t you just leave now you’re struggling. I was like, I can’t. And she’s like, why? And I was like, because I can’t it’s like, but who benefits from this? And it’s like, literally everyone bugged me. Yeah, exactly. And I know that. And I felt like when I got down to that part, I was very conscious of, well, a few things happen in my life. But um, I became incredibly conscious of things that I was doing for other people that no longer serves to me. And there was a lot It wasn’t just working, it was like relationships and things. And then I, when I started saying no to them, like things started to get a lot better.
Unknown Speaker 9:18
Yeah, oh, I can relate totally. I had a very similar experience. I never I did not used to know how to say no, I had no boundaries. If someone asked me to do something, I would like jump at the opportunity to prove how awesome I was at it because it was like, What an honor that you would ask me to do whatever. Like plan your baby shower or, you know, Chair this committee for you or volunteer for this, that and the other thing I was over committed, I always said yes. Because while I had FOMO also, I just had no boundaries and I was like the worst kind of people pleaser, and it was. I think, when I was younger, like in my 20s, I just never really stopped to think about Like what I wanted, like, what, what was I doing for myself? And why was my identity so caught up in being? All of these things everybody else? And how was it serving me like, and I just never stopped to examine any of that it was just, you know, social conditioning as a young girl, for me anyways was like, you have to work so hard to prove your worth, by your, what you produced, and how much people like you. Those are the things that I thought and I just, it wasn’t until I like, burned out for the millionth time and was like dead to the world that I was like, Okay, this is not working. I need to like, do something completely different with my life so that I’m not perpetually on the cycle of burnout. It’s just not sustainable.
Yeah. And so when you’re, when your clients come to you, what are they asking? And and what are you finding is the most or sorry, what are they asking? And what are what are you sort of seeing on their behalf? Like, what are they really maybe asking for?
Unknown Speaker 11:03
Yeah, that’s a great question. So pre pandemic, everything I ever did. So pre pandemic, actually, this business didn’t have a name or a business license. It wasn’t until April of 2020, when people were all at home and stuck at home. And I was like, Oh, this is like a big problem, people are stuck in their homes, and they’re stressed out by their homes. So that’s when I was like, I made it a legit business and changed my structure. But before that, everything I ever did was like people would have specific problems. Like, for instance, a friend of mine, her the preschool that her kids went to there, they had this huge massive storage area that was like kids crafts, and books, and, you know, toys and things like that. And it was just everything was everywhere. And there was no system. So that’s pretty typical, even in people’s homes. So I came in, and I, like, you know, put all of the things in similar categories, and put them in containers, so they weren’t falling off the shelves, you know, simple solutions, so that everything was easy to see and easily accessible. They knew what they had, they didn’t have to waste time looking for things. There were things buried at the bottom of piles. And it didn’t take half the day to unearth, you know, the whatever specific craft items they were looking for. So that is pretty pretty much the typical request of anybody who has a disorganized houses that they’re like, I can’t find things that I know I have. I’m you know, I’m tripping over things when I’m getting things out of my closet every day, like I’m literally hurting myself physically. Yeah, and the biggest complaint is just being stressed out by the amount of clutter. And that’s usually the biggest thing is like I have this specific area that has all this clutter, and I don’t know what to do with it. And or I’ve tried all of these solutions. And they’re they’ve been great for a little while, but none of them stick. Like why do I continue to revert back to this like state of chaos, no matter what solution I find that seems like it’s gonna work. So fast forward to the pandemic, and everybody’s at home. And I was like, Well, how, how am I supposed to help people with their homes when I can’t go in their homes? You know. So that was a dilemma for a little while. But what I realized is that what I love about this is actually not going into people’s homes, or businesses and doing it for them. Because what people are actually looking for, is to figure is to actually figure out what their problem is. Because there are like a million solutions that will work to get you organized. But most of the time people start with the solution, instead of examining what the actual problem is like, why are you disorganized? Why isn’t this working for you? What what are the beliefs that you have surrounding your relationship with your stuff that got you here in the first place? And me shifting my mindset to working with people to examine what their current behavior is that’s perpetuating this disorganization made me realize that I actually don’t want to go into people’s homes anymore and organize things for them. I want to help them figure out how to fix it for themselves. Because Yeah, that will keep them organized forever. Instead of just giving them a band aid. That is great for a while until they kind of go off the tracks and things get derailed and they don’t know how to get back on it.
I love that. So what are some of the common? I’m like so interested for myself? I’m trying to think like, I’m pretty good with my clutter. I mean, right now we just moved in. We moved in August, and our house is about to have a renovation, we had to wait a long time for renovation, which means like, we are in a state of half unpacked Yeah, that’s that. is very not my style, like I like to wit and moved a lot as a kid. So going to a place and setting up. And organizing is very important to me. Somehow, I’m able to survive this we have like all of our art and our painting, like in your background right now it’s so beautiful. But ours are all like, against the wall. In this one room, we have a totally empty room, we have the furniture for that room at the store in storage. And hopefully by the end of June, it’ll all be together, but it does feel disorganized. It does feel chaotic. What are some of the common things like why why are people? What are some of the things that you’re seeing in your clients? Like, why are people kind of holding on to things? What are some of the things that you’re you’re often unpacking there?
Unknown Speaker 15:51
Yeah, so um, I would say that there are probably three of three biggest reasons why people are either perpetually disorganized, and they’ve never been able to get organized or they are like you were you’re, you’re usually pretty organized, but you’ve fallen off the wagon for you know, an obvious reason is that you’re in the middle of moving. So the first thing is, and this is usually true of people who are pet perpetually disorganized, is that they’re not clear on what their goal is, and what their values are, and how those values inform what their goals are. So thinking back to when I was a young, overworked, burnt out super organized person, I didn’t know what my goal was either I was just organized for the sake of being organized, I didn’t have like this bigger vision in mind that I wanted my home to be like a peaceful, foundational like place that I could go to rest and relax. At the end of the day that didn’t add to my stress. I didn’t have any sort of a goal for what I was organizing for. So I think that is one of the biggest things is that people don’t have a vision. And they also maybe don’t examine what their highest values are, and how those values inform how they’re setting goals. Like for instance, if you have a space where like, if you’re a creative person, and you have like a studio space, you might your goal or your vision for the space might be to give you creative energy, give you like a some sort of a retreat from the stresses of everyday life where you can just go within and channel that creative energy and not have all the distractions of whatever laundry dishes, kids, etc. Like, what what do you how do you want to feel in that space? What do you want to achieve in that space? What’s the space for? Ryan’s Yeah, I think most people just sort of like assume that like, yeah, living or miss for sitting in and watching TV like, it’s super basic, right. But you have to go further than that. Because otherwise, you just end up sort of going through the motions everyday of just living in your house and being like perpetually maintaining and cleaning and tidying, without having this bigger goal, which informs the decisions you make about solving your problems. So if maybe one of the problems in your living space is that there are always there’s always laundry in that space, and it stresses you out to have laundry where you’re sitting and watching TV, whatever. Like you need to get clear on what your goal for the spaces and then build your solutions around your vision and your goals.
Well, it’s funny that you say that because we I find although I am an organized person, I find interior decorating or design incredibly overwhelming and exhausting. That’s funny.
Unknown Speaker 18:59
That’s my background is Oh, I just have a degree in interior design.
It is so it will this is perfect because we so we lived in Toronto, we bought that house we renovated so we kept being like, we bought this house and we’re like, okay, we’re gonna do this, we’re gonna do this thing. We’re gonna do this thing. We’re like that. And we just never did it. We We were so blocked by not having that goal not having anything. So we hiring an interior designer who is wonderful. And she literally asked us that question, what is the goal of this room? What do you want to do in this room? How do you want to feel in this room, and she designed spaces that really, really worked? so well. And then what happens is, like I think about our living room at the time, we wanted to be able to host people and have people sit in that space. But we have children. Yeah, we lived in a house in Toronto. So it’s not like this big sprawling place. It’s like a house in Toronto. It’s not very big. So we need storage to put away all of our crap. And it’s like, oh, you need someone to kind of walk you through that. Side note, funny story, you would have hated me. We came out this house. I, I was like, I would like furniture and and our designer in Toronto was very decisive. Because I think she was just very annoyed with how she wasn’t annoyed. She was lovely. She’s just like, okay, here are three choices. Make one I’m like, I can make one choice out of three. Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 20:42
you can. Totally.
And our designer here is like, I really want this to be collaborative. I want you and died to choose it. And I was like, okay, so her and I go, and we spend like two hours picking up the furniture for my living room. And I, I got into my car, and I was like, the fatigue I felt doing, it was so overwhelming. Yeah, I just like it reminds me all the time that this is really an area that I think goes under appreciated in terms of like a need for your house. If Of course, it’s a privilege to have an interior designer and someone to help you. But it is. So if you can and you’re making these choices, and you’re spending the money and you’re doing your renovation, these are answers that are so incredibly important.
Unknown Speaker 21:37
Yeah, I agree. Well, the thing about interior design that’s actually very similar to organizing is that there’s like a bigger vision involved. It’s not just like picking things that you think look nice, because that’s not actually solution for anything, it just looks nice, it might not actually be functional, or work for the way that you use your space. And that’s that, that feeds right into the whole having a goal and a vision for the space. Because I think part of not having a goal or a vision for your space. The problem with that is that most people start with the solution. And they’re like, Oh, I want my space to look like that, like X, Y and Z. And so they go on Pinterest, and they find this beautiful solution that doesn’t address the way they live or what their problem is, right? It just looks nice, but it’s not something that they can just like, maintain order with. So, you know, there’s this current trend, I won’t name any names, but like, I love that I love the company. But they put everything in rainbow order, right? You’ve seen the trend.
I have to you have to tell me after because I’m not following but it means that I am not cooling him. Like my feed is full of things.
Unknown Speaker 22:51
So that Okay, so that I’m just gonna say it. There’s a Netflix series that that? Oh, yes, yeah, showcases these two women, professional organizers. And they’re awesome. And I love them. It’s like, it’s like organization porn for people like me who are super neurotic about it. So but they’re, they put everything in rainbow order. So like, for instance, in your bathroom, they take all your toiletries. And it’s like, it’s organized by red, blue, green, you know, blah, blah, everything goes together with its color instead of like, what it’s for, like what its function is. Right? Yeah.
So like, that would have not been an assumed organizational strategy.
Unknown Speaker 23:29
It can work for you if that’s the way your brain works. But the thing is, is it’s super trendy right now. So people like are jumping on the wagon and like putting everything in their house like their pantry, their linen closet, their bookshelves, their sock drawer, like everything in order by Rainbow like the color colors of the rainbow. And that’s not a solution. That’s just like, Yeah, it looks cute. It does. I like this. It’s not going to solve your problems though.
Yeah, for sure. For sure. Yeah. And I think um, I hate to bring up like, well, I’m sure you’re familiar with Marie Kondo.
Unknown Speaker 24:09
It sort of sounds like you guys have a similar sort of vibe like why do we have this does it bring you joy which I think is another word for saying like what purpose does this have for you? What is the purpose for this? And it could be you know, I really like it but I think you said something so true to me is that we buy the solution revived the thing the the last outcome, and that was brought a nice problem for five years in our house in Toronto, is that we kept buying these things that didn’t go together or like I bought this tomato I was in like an antique store and I bought a tomato cookie jar and I love that tomato cookie jar. And I could not make it work with Our space is much as I tried, but I love the jar, the jar is lovely. It didn’t fit in our house at all. And I feel like so many people probably do things like
Unknown Speaker 25:10
Oh, absolutely, that’s one of the biggest things that like harkens back to What’s your goal for the space and your vision. Just because you love something doesn’t mean it has to be in your home, you can love it, and then leave the shop without it or wherever it is that you see it like it’s okay to love it and like feel that love for it and not own it. Because you can’t have everything in your home that you love. Like, did I want it? I know. You have to think about like, does it fit in with how you want your life to be? Is it going to add value to your space? Or is it going to make you more stressed out because you have to rearrange everything and try to fit it in. You know, it’s it’s a really examining the behaviors and the beliefs that you have for why you buy things or accept gifts from people or why you keep why you bring new things into your home that you don’t necessarily need.
I love that. I love that I feel what do you do? What do you do about gifts? Like, I’m not I’m never I will never bring anything but flowers to a new home and like some nice champagne. But I’m not going to bring like a designer item. But I feel like that does happen. Like here are some candlesticks?
Unknown Speaker 26:19
What do I know? Yeah. So I personally will never give people gifts of stuff either. Because, you know, I don’t want them to feel like they have to keep it. But if you get gifts from people, here’s the thing you have to realize is that if someone gives you a gift, it is well intentioned. And they are they want good things for you. Right? This is given with love and or respect or whatever good intention, they’re giving it to you. And you can honor that gift and the intention with which it was given without keeping the thing because that person wants good things for you. And if you are stressed out by all of the crap that you were keeping, because you feel guilty for giving them away, you’re not actually honoring the intention of the gift that was given to you in the first place, you can still appreciate that, that intention with which it was given, and then letting go. Like you don’t have to announce to the person that you’re getting rid of it.
But you’d like to come over for a burning of your stuffs there. Well, I mean, I feel we only have a few minutes left. I like to keep this podcast to the time of a crab nap. As they say, yeah, I’m so sorry about that. Yeah, no,
Unknown Speaker 27:34
I feel like if I’m getting through an hour podcast, it’s because I’ve I’ve left my family for some reason for an extended period of time. Anyway, um, Kelly, where can people find out more about you? And it’s wonderful. I’m in Canada, you’re in the US. But you don’t need to come into someone’s home to to help them say, Please tell us where we can find you.
Unknown Speaker 28:04
Yeah, so you can find me on my website, which is the tidy rebel calm. And you can get on my waitlist for online classes, which again, is awesome that you can live anywhere in the world and still join me for an online class. So that tidy rebel calm you can get on the waitlist. But if you don’t want to wait until my next online workshop, I have an awesome digital guide for people that is specifically for sleep and rest. So if you go to the tidy rebel comm slash energy, I have a digital guide that will take you like a half an hour to read that tells you about how to identify things in her home that are you wouldn’t necessarily think about that are robbing you of energy and your ability to get deep restorative sleep. so sneaky things in your house that keep you more tired than you need to be.
Yes, I love that. And I’ll link that in the show notes as well.
Unknown Speaker 28:58
I also have a special coupon code for your listeners. Oh, what is it if you put in sleep SL EP, in the coupon code field in the checkout, you’ll get 50% off of that digital guide.
That’s amazing. That is so good. I’ll put that in the show notes as well. I feel like you’re gonna get a lot of calls from people being like, please, and this is this is my next goal. So stay tuned in a few months on when our renovation is done. But I feel like a big thing that I hear from my clients is the play room is like people like it gives me anxiety. It’s not my space. For me, I can give that away because it isn’t my space and it’s out of sight out of mind. It’s downstairs but stay with me
Unknown Speaker 29:45
you actually visit that right sometimes. And that’s the whole point of being organized is to take the anxiety and stress out of your home because there’s enough of it outside of your home. Your home should be your haven that we’re all that stuff is not allowed.
I can just attest to this so much that when it does feel organized, it’s a really, it’s a really nice feeling. I’ll end with this. My daughter said, we did this like nice renovation, everything was put away, blah, blah, blah. My kids are six and four and my four year old is like, mummy. Our other house was cleaner. It’s like a no. Dirty in this house. Dirty is just disorganized. She’s like, Okay, well, tick tock. busted. I know, even kids. Yep, they do. And they feel it. And God bless them for being so honest. I know. Well, thank you so much for coming on here. It was a pleasure to speak with you. And if you are still tired, please head over to babies. asleep.com for all of my blogs, you’re here. So you’re listening to the podcast instagram.com slash babies best sleep is where I give you all the tips every day. And as always give us you can book a discovery call to have a chat with one of my team members or myself. If you are still struggling and you are listening to this podcast that three because you should be asleep. Anyway, have a good one everyone. See you later. Bye.
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