Speaker 1: (00:11)
Hello everybody. And welcome to another edition of the slumber party. I’m your host, Amanda Jewson. And we are going to be talking about the thing that you guys are going to be really mad at me about. And, um, you’re going to be like, Amanda, I hate this podcast. You might not even be listening and that’s fine. You might have just skipped over this one because I’m going to be telling things you don’t want to hear today. And let me tell you, I feel the pain too. Okay. We’re in this together today. I have expert Elizabeth. Milovidov, I said your name wrong. We’re going to have to do it again. Now there’s too much stress. Milovidov. There we go. I did it. I did it. I really, I need to pronounce names correctly. It’s important to me. It’s a former teacher. She’s an internationally known digital parenting coach, author, lawyer, and law professor.

Speaker 1: (01:02)
She’s a founder of digital parenting, coach.com and provides information and support to caregivers, parents who are looking for best practices when it comes to social media, internet laws, and the internet at large Elizabeth publications include the parent’s guide to parenting in the digital age, the parent’s guide to YouTube and YouTube kids and the parents guide to digital detox and disconnect. Elizabeth. I am so excited to have you, because for me, this is something that I show to the rooftops. And now we have an expert to talk about it in a way better way than just some, you know, sleep coach can. So thank you for coming today.

Speaker 2: (01:44)
No problem. It’s absolutely my pleasure. This is like my favorite topic of all time, just talking about digital wellness and what families can do, because it’s so, so important. And I just think that, you know, I do hope that your listeners are going to tune in that they’re not going to be freaked out and think they were going to say anything too scary because we’re not, we’re going to scare them a little bit, but we’ll give them some strategies.

Speaker 1: (02:06)
And you know what? I find that when I’m talking to my clients and we’re talking, especially my toddler, preschoolers, who, um, this is sort of how my TV trajectory went. So you were kind of asking me a little bit about this before we jumped in. And I was like, no, let’s save it. So, um, you have a baby and you’re like, my child will never watch TV. They will never. And you’re like, yep, that’s what I’ll do. And then it becomes, um, I had this epiphany, so my child was like three months old. This is my first baby. And I was on the floor and I was like, I don’t know what to do. Like I don’t, I don’t know what to do with myself. And this baby is here. And like I personally was for like, she didn’t need TV, but I was like, I can’t turn on the TV because of her eyes even look at the screen, there will be so much brain damage.

Speaker 1: (02:57)
And now, Oh my God, it’ll be so bad. So then I like had a minor breakdown and I called my friend, Sarah. And I was like, what do I do? And she’s like, okay, first of all, get off the floor. You don’t have to be on the floor with your baby. The second thing is, you’re going to put on Ellen and like Ellen, you know, six years ago could do no wrong. She’s in a lot wrong these days. If you’re reading anything, it’s not great. But at the time I watched Ellen and it saved me. But so then, you know, my child would never watch TV, but it would be in the periphery. And then, then you have a second baby and you’re like, okay, TV is this amazing thing that you will always get because I need to do something with your sister or I need to do X, Y, and Z.

Speaker 1: (03:54)
And so that’s how my TV trajectory happened, where it went from never to, I need to do something. So we’re going to watch a show. I still love her and a lot because my husband travels. So my daughters would watch a show in the morning while I got ready. It’s sort of like is a stop gap so I can do other things. Um, but I’m also, I’m a former teacher. And so I have, uh, in addition to like being a parent, I have all of the research on how devices are affecting children and it doesn’t hear me. And now as a sleep expert, we know that the blue light from screens is impacting sleep. So there’s so many layers. And I would love for you to talk to our listeners who probably have guilt, anxiety, or fear about all of these things. And you hurt you are the person that’s going to lead us into the light. Here we go. Let me get my boots.

Speaker 2: (04:50)
No pressure whatsoever first, just so that you know, you’re not alone because your journey sounds an awful lot, like my own and my own boys are 10 and 13 now. And they’re okay. And I also have to say full disclaimer. I watched a heck of a lot of television myself when I was a little kid.

Speaker 1: (05:07)
Okay. I went to law school, I got a PhD,

Speaker 2: (05:10)
You know, things kind of balance out. Right. You’re okay. It’s really, yeah, I’m okay. But that’s really, the optimal word is balance. And I think that’s what parents need to know. And I think that for the, for the new mommy’s who have the young babies, of course, we were always freaking out. We didn’t know what to do, you know, should the baby sleep on his tummy on this side? You know, we’re just kind of freaking out about everything. And I just really want all of your people to understand that if you’re taking care of yourself and that means, you know, having that Ellen moment, so that way you can, you know, get calm in your head. You’re, you’re better. You feel better, baby feels better. They get that. Now, if we’re going to start talking about some of the hardcore stuff, right. Which is, um, first let’s just talk about what all of these devices in general are doing. Okay. Because I know that, um, toddlers are on tablets and smartphones, you know, and they’re playing games and there’s, you know, speaking with grandma or an uncle or an aunt, et cetera. And I’m, I’m going to say that’s okay. Keep it in control. You know, think about balance a few years ago, the American pediatric association they’d come out before and they said children under two, zero screens. Right?

Speaker 1: (06:21)
This is my, yeah, this was my, uh, yeah. And then, so I’m just worried about, they changed it.

Speaker 2: (06:30)
The reason why they changed it is because they realized that it wasn’t practical and that people really need to, um, you know, find ways to live in this digital age. And right now with the pandemic, my goodness, we’re even more concerned with our, our devices. So

Speaker 1: (06:44)
Can I interrupt you for five seconds because I have to just know your opinion on one thing, did you watch Glenn and Doyle’s video about parenting and the pandemic? This is how I found her. If you haven’t go look it up. Yeah. She, she did this Instagram story where she said, um, a friend called me up and he asked me, um, you know, I’m losing it. And he’s so mad that I’m on the phone right now because it’s not TV time. And I said, it is a pandemic all day, his TV time, you wake up, you do like, is it actually a way better video that I’m getting, it was so perfect. And I was like, this is a permission we all need right now. But I think that that’s it.

Speaker 2: (07:30)
We have to give ourselves permission. And, um, and that’s exactly right. I think that parents have to do whatever they can right now just to kind of survive. We’re no longer talking about thriving in the digital age. I love all those buzz words. You know, I’ll teach you how to survive and thrive in the digital age right now. This is survival mode and it’s okay. You know, it really is. Okay. Um, and I know that when we examine Paris, France, and when we were in hardcore lockdown, my boys had ate too much, way too much screen time, online time, et cetera. And they’re back off now, you know, we’ve eased out and they’re back off now. I mean, do what you have to do digital parents, but realize that it’s all about balance. It’s like anything like eating too much chocolate drinking, too much wine.

Speaker 2: (08:11)
Right. You know, you may overdo it, but get back on track. Um, and so I do think that it’s really important that, um, that parents, especially young parents, that they get rid of all that guilt that get rid of the anxiety. I love what you said earlier about doing the research. And that is like already for me, boom, right there. That’s the basis. And if you can’t do the research, then it’s about having a community like yours, where you’re talking with other parents to find out, you know, what are you doing? What are the best practices? What have you seen? Um, cause I think that if more parents are talking to each other and communicating about the things that they’ve noticed with their own children, that is really going to help. And so I know that you want me to talk a little bit about like some device stuff don’t you

Speaker 1: (08:56)
Yet? Oh yeah. I want to know about that specifically because my, um, a common thing that I hear, so parents do it on their own. And so like we can talk to adult stuff, but a lot of my parents will say, I’m reluctant to take away the tablet before bed because that’s a calming activity for them. They seem calm when they’re on it. They, they chill out. Uh, my research, I’m sure your research says differently. Yeah,

Speaker 2: (09:24)
Exactly. And I think that is like really key. They have to understand that the blue light is just, it’s stimulating the brain. So maybe they’re sitting there all quiet, et cetera, but it’s stimulating them and it’s going to prevent the leader, the release of melatonin, which is going to help them sleep. And so I really think that parents might want to find another ritual, um, with, with their, with their children at nighttime. Even if it’s, you know, again, go back to those basics, let’s go old school and, you know, read a book. And if you have to read your Kindle, because that’s where the story is or your e-reader, that’s fine, but don’t let them see the screen, you know, read to them, let them see your face, your mouth, all the expressions that go with it. Um, but I think that, um, that the digital has just become so, so convenient.

Speaker 2: (10:08)
Right. And I really want to, again, stress, don’t let the convenience take over, um, you know, some of our common sense. I mean, I have seen so many things, you’re going to be amazed things like, um, connected diapers, connected pacifiers. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Connected pacifiers that have like temperature and they can like, you know, tell you, there is so much other, the collected diapers will let you know how, what the hydration is like in the diaper. If it’s too wet, if it’s dry and you get all this information on an app and I’m like, come on parents, I can understand in some circumstances, especially, um, you know, like some of the medical circumstances where they have a one Z that is a connected one Z, they make sure that the child is, is sleeping correctly. We get it. But it’s like, we’ve let convenience and technology takeover so much.

Speaker 2: (10:57)
And we’re not even thinking about some of the risks, right? Like the wire wifi, you know, like the radiation, like radio waves. Um, you know, I just think that even with something as simple as a baby monitor, that we all love and enjoy, you know, do the research, as you said, like that was like, that’s all I’m going to say the entire time that we speak as research, do the research because they did the research on the baby monitors. They would be looking at things like, um, you know, what’s the frequency finding the lower frequency, what are the safe levels? You know, making sure not to place it next to the baby, because these are all things that while you might think that white noise is helpful, et cetera, in the end, it may not be as helpful as we, as we think. So. I mean, for me, I think in general, just education during the research and if you can’t do that, ask the questions

Speaker 1: (11:46)
Well, and I, I often recommend white noises, my clients, but they’re often surprised to hear that a lot lower than what they’ve been told, so right. Noise can be a fan white noise. And actually there’s, um, I think it’s called the MPAC. I’ll have to double check, but there’s a specific white noise machine that is actually a machine. It’s not, um, it’s not something like you it’s like a fan inside. And so the fan noise. And so you’re not dealing with the electronics, but for so long, I think, um, just right before I had my child, it was like loud, white noise, loud, white noise. And now there is some evidence to suggest out loud, white noise is impacting children’s hearing. So we need to keep it. Actually, I suggest anywhere between 40 and 50 decibels download a decibel reader. Um, yeah. And then you obviously need to, um, think about, you know, what I w when I hear about all of these connected devices, um, it’s not that I’m not worried about frequencies and whatever.

Speaker 1: (12:53)
My actual main concern is the amount of anxiety that gives a parent. Um, so in my line of work, I’m dealing with moms at their most tired, I should say parents, but it’s quite often, I’m communicating with moms. Um, but all parents have a certain level of anxiety of anxiety about their child. And then we have these devices that are so hyper connected to our child, that we know their oxygen levels, their heart rate levels there. And it’s, you know, unless there is in my personal opinion. And I think of most doctors I’ve spoken to, unless you have been medically advised to monitor these vitals, there is no, unless an even so if you’re an educated doctor or nurse, and you have that information, you have to ask yourself, what are you going to do with that? So I had a client ask me, you know, I noticed that, you know, when they were upset today, when they were protesting, their heart rate was high.

Speaker 1: (13:55)
And then after it was low, and I was like, well, that tracks, that tracks for me, they were upset, but I it’s like, what do you think? It’s like, I’m not trained to give that information about what that means. And I think that unless you’re going to do something with it, like give it to a doctor, communicate with a healthcare practitioner, then you need to know, we don’t need to know everything that we need to know. Um, and I think we know too much, and that includes, like I had an, I had a monitor company reach out. So my girls did have a monitor in their room, but it was like on the other side of the room and it was away from them, but a video monitor. But there are these video monitors, these days that like snap shot every possible movement, breath, whatever.

Speaker 1: (14:50)
And then I have this company reach out and be like, we’d love for you to be a spokesperson. And I was like, I won’t, because in my line of work, this is creating anxiety for parents. So I have to answer to things that are completely normal. Like I notice my monitor picked up that my child’s moved a total of 15 times, is that normal? It’s like, yeah. And God forbid, we put a camera on you overnight as a grownup. And we see all of the things that you see. And like, if we want to, I’m sorry, I’m going on a tangent right now. But if we want to even think about what this looks like for grownups are Apple watches. Uh, since, since Apple watching these Fitbits have started tracking our, um, our heart rates, there’s been an increase of people going to their doctor about their heart rate stuff.

Speaker 1: (15:43)
It’s like, we have all of this information that it’s like, we’re getting, we’re getting to a point where like, if you’re going to test and test and test and test and test and test and look for something, you’re probably gonna find something totally benign that you’re going to have to investigate. That will give you a ton of anxiety. And it’s, I don’t know why we have all these things. It makes me crazy. I can tell, sorry. My job is, is helping calm a parent about what is normal, what here’s, what the research says, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then I have to contend with these whole, like a whole slew of anxiety producing devices. And I’m like, it’s the marketing? It’s the marketing. They know. Yeah.

Speaker 2: (16:27)
The young parents or not young parents, but parents with newborns and young children are anxious. I mean, it’s normal. It’s the name of the game. My boys are 10 and 13. Does it go away? People you’re still anxious. You know, it’s just, you have to learn how to, to deal with it. And it’s true. These devices, they don’t always help. So for example, I too had baby monitors, uh, but mine were the type where if they moved, it would pick up. Uh, so that’s so that’s, you know, of course I’m fine. And I would say always just do the research, you know, you can figure out what’s gonna work. I’m not saying no baby monitors at all. I’m saying just don’t place it right on their foreheads or the fan or the loud music, the white noise, right. At their hearing. Exactly. It’s like do the research, but it’s so true that when you sit there and think about this, these, these things, these devices, they, they do produce, they create anxiety.

Speaker 2: (17:15)
Think about your own smartphone. Right. All the cute little notifications that come up and be like, Oh, who was that? Oh, do I need to return that call? I mean, this is the same thing. If you’re getting notifications, Oh, the baby moved, Oh, the baby made noise. Oh, the diaper is a little bit wet. I mean, it just is anxiety producing. And I think that we don’t meet all of that. Um, just like on our smartphones, how we can turn our phones to gray scale, which no one does. Um, so that we don’t have to see all of the swirling colors. I mean, these are, there are ways to reduce, um, the effects of technology because I’m the first person who will say I technology love social media, love internet. I think that it is just so cool. I was like a Trekkie before Trekkies even became truckies.

Speaker 2: (17:56)
I think all that stuff is cool. Star Wars, you name it, I’m all over it. But I also think that, um, you know, there are tiny risk out there. Um, and we have to think about that. And as a Maurier, I should say one of the things that we didn’t even touch upon is data protection and privacy, all of this data that you’re giving. And let’s just talk about baby cams, right? So the monitors, where’s it going? Where are these live streams going? Um, a few years ago, you guys can all go Google it a few years ago, just would type in hacking baby monitors. And you will see, they were like live streaming on cribs. Right.

Speaker 1: (18:32)
It’s crazy. Yeah, of course.

Speaker 2: (18:35)
But I mean, it’s just because it’s a thing to do. It’s not like the, you know, I mean, bad actors are going to be bad actors. Right. So it’s like, think about the data that you are putting out there. And I’m talking about from everything I’m talking about from the ultrasounds that she posted on social media to say we’re pregnant, but accidentally leave the hospital name and your name, et cetera. Um, my own son, my 13 year old, his profile is the exact same of him today. Right. So it’s just like, I would have never posted it. Um, but you know, to think about these things and to realize that you are the digital guardian, um, you know, and just because we have a phone and the baby’s so cute in nursing, you want to take pictures and post them to everyone just to kind of step back and realize that they have their own little digital identities too. They have their own little digital, and you can share this information. You can share information about them. Of course you can. Uh, but just think about their privacy.

Speaker 1: (19:28)
Yeah. And I I’m I’m, I try to be careful it slips out for sure. I try to be careful, but on my social media, not using their first names in print, um, for, you know, reasons, I don’t want someone to recognize my children and username. Um, I know that sounds crazy, but I, these are the things it’s not crazy. Well, even digital guardianship. Yeah. And I think about what I think about all the time is, um, are you familiar with Emily Auster? I talk about her book, like every other episode, but there’s a film called grip sheet and she talks about every possible controversial parenting decision. So breastfeeding bottle feeding, sleep training, or not, blah, blah, blah. And in her sleep training chapter, she talked about, and it was just a throwaway comment, but it’s kind of always stuck with me that due to baby sleep tracking apps.

Speaker 1: (20:23)
And I’m not saying you don’t use this, but I’m saying like, think about this, that we have an insane amount of evidence about when babies wake and fall asleep on, on average, when their best times to wake and fall asleep are. And I was like, interesting, cause we use that for our help, but that data goes somewhere and it’s being sold and it’s being, and it’s like, it doesn’t have your name and your address on it, but it’s, it’s important to know that whatever you put into the internet, there’s a reason why it’s asking for it. And we need to be thinking carefully. Now you said something that I want to hit on. Um, and it was, I’m gonna butcher it. I want to save as New York times about two years ago, published this article about, um, screens and kids. And you had talked about all of the notifications and I’m thinking about like dopamine and how, um, so in our house, and this is a personal role, this is not a judgment.

Speaker 1: (21:25)
I think you can totally do this with balance, but we don’t, we don’t play video games. We don’t play games yet until I can reason with my kids. I’m not against it, but I have tried games by the way, my kids turn into raging monsters when you take this way, most of them, and I just don’t want to deal with it. So maybe it’s lazy, it’s not judgment, but I’ve also seen kids been like, okay, I don’t need to play this game anymore, but for my kids, um, I would love if you can speak to it, like how these notifications and how these games are designed to trigger like an addictive response. And that like that article in the New York times, I’ll try to link it in the show notes after this. That was my, that was like, as I was leaving teaching, we were all getting this information because, you know, as teachers we’re like iPads where everyone, everyone plays a game and then it was like, Whoa, maybe hold on. We might need to dial that back. So can you just speak to that a little bit?

Speaker 2: (22:26)
Sure. So I’m just going to back up just a tiny bit, because you were talking about all the data that’s out there and about parents putting things out and, and, um, you know, filling out forms and et cetera. I mean, just take that simple test if you’re on your iPhone, your smartphone and, um, I phone or Android, whatever you’re on your smartphone and you start looking at a baby crib, right. And then all of a sudden on Facebook, Instagram, you start seeing ads for baby cribs, come on people. That’s what I’m saying. So think about where this is coming from, right? And so it’s the same thing when you’re, you know, doing innocent searches or when you’re uploading information about your children, although it may not be specific to your children, it will help marketing and advertisers. And so my general rule is that it’s free.

Speaker 2: (23:08)
You’re the product, right? It’s just that simple and just, you know, keep it in mind. And, um, you know, also tell your children that, because there are a lot of fabulous apps for children that are free, and there’s a reason why, and that, but if we go back to talking about this whole screen dilemma and I am going to call it a dilemma, because there has been a huge amount of controversy, um, you know, when the New York times and the Atlantic there have been, you know, academics, who’ve gone back and forth, you know, just all out, fighting about the methodologies about how they discovered these things. And, um, what I will say is this, that screened balance is really essential that people have to realize, even when we talk about screen time, that might not even be the appropriate word. I don’t know what the word is, but for example, if my 13 year old is studying Latin for two hours on an iPad, is that the same effect of him playing for two hours?

Speaker 2: (24:01)
Yeah. Yeah. When you say screen time, there’s a, there’s a big difference. And so for me, and in fact, you also used a word that I don’t use, which is addiction. And that is because addiction is a medical term and we know that the world health organization, they came out with gaming disorder and addiction, I believe this was, Oh, I can’t even remember what year, well, a year or two ago. And everyone started freaking out saying, Oh my gosh, you know, gaming sort of addiction. But I mean, it’s like 12 months of, of, you know, the gaming disorder before it became addiction. And then people would say, Oh, my child doesn’t get off. When I, when they’re playing roadblocks, they don’t get off immediately. They’re addicted. Yeah. And it’s like, they’re not addicted. Just not listening. Exactly. Just listening to you. And this is called self regulation, which little kids have trouble doing.

Speaker 2: (24:48)
Right. Even adults. So it’s just like bring it back. Yeah. But if I were to say the best way to really just kind of handle this whole screen debate is, um, first to look at what they’re doing online. Um, you know, what are the plans, uh, you had mentioned earlier that your children watch, um, like movies with you or like a series is you mean, this is something completely different than mindless streaming on YouTube or on Netflix. Um, so for all the people who have Netflix and streaming put the parental controls on them and turn off that suggested episode, next episode, next episode, you can turn that off on everything. And this is again, back to that research, right. Get in there and dig around and say, okay, what can I do to limit? And I mean, I don’t say, you know, forbid, I’m just saying, keep it reasonable, but it would have like five really important things.

Speaker 2: (25:36)
If you’re thinking about my child is addicted. Is, are they sleeping well? Right. So that’s already the first one. Are they sleeping? Well, are they eating well? Are they doing well in school? Are they interacting? You know, nursery school, et cetera, are they doing well? Um, are they, um, keeping up with friends and family, you know, or they have engagement in conversation. And lastly, you’ve already alluded to this, but how are they interacting with their devices? If they’re throwing tantrums and they’re getting aggressive, I do have a kid. I’m not going to call out my child, but I do have a case where one of my children’s called me a name because I, um, I actually were playing Fortnite and I lost, I got shot up and I didn’t like it. You know, revive him in time. Oh, you didn’t call me a bad word, but he was not happy.

Speaker 2: (26:20)
And I just said, okay, we’re done. You have that. We are done with this. And that was the end of that. I mean, it’s just that simple. And if you interact and play with them, you said you saw for yourself with your own children, that they turned into like liberal, crazy people. So that’s, you know, and you can try again at another time you mentioned the ones that, who are you now? Oh, okay. Take it away. That can happen in my house too. But only like, after they’ve had, they’ve already had some, they’ve already been playing. It’s like having chocolates and sweets. Right. They had some yesterday, they’re not going to care if you’re like, okay, man, today then be like, okay, well I had some yesterday, so yeah. Whatever, what abs mom.

Speaker 2: (27:01)
Yeah. So it’s like just keeping it, keeping it real. And like, and I really think that parents should not feel parent shamed by what they’re reading in the media, by what they’re seeing. Um, you know, especially if you’re looking on social media and you see all these perfect families doing these great things, you know, don’t believe the hype, right. That was a song way back when don’t believe the hype, just take care of your own family. You know, think about the balance that you need. If you’re worried about your child’s sleeping. And you’re thinking there’s an effect with devices, you know, do one of the sleep logs. Right. But with that sleep journal, keep track of the devices. And what time did you turn it off? Was it 30 minutes before they went to sleep? Was it an hour? Do you need to go up to two hours? I mean, all of these things are things that you can figure out yourself in a relatively short amount of time, and you can even use an app to track it. If you have to,

Speaker 1: (27:49)
I am obsessed with this because I feel like what you said is essentially what I say to parents all the time when you know their toddler or their preschooler, you know, I think it usually happens around two and a half, three, where kids are really wanting to define boundaries. They say, what is the boundary? What is the boundary? And then there’ll be like, no, they don’t want to sleep. Or they’re traumatized by sleep. And I always say, no, they, they just don’t want to. And now you have to set the boundary. And this sounds like exactly what you’re saying are kids aren’t necessarily addicted. You just need to set a boundary. And I think that this is with all parenting stuff. Maybe you decide that

Speaker 2: (28:30)
Parenting stuff. Exactly. And I would even go even further and say, it’s not even the setting, the boundary, it’s the sticking with it because we’ve all said, okay, that’s it, you’re off. And then later on, we have to do something and it’s like, okay, just 15 minutes, but don’t tell your father. I mean, I haven’t done that. I, I don’t know that story at all, but I’ve done it too, but you’re completely right. It’s about boundaries and what cracks me up. A lot of times people contact me as a digital parenting coach to ask me my three year old or my gosh, they’re crying. They’re throwing a tantrum when I take the iPad away. And I’m like, yeah,

Speaker 1: (29:06)
I would too. If I was three and you gave me this amazing thing I would also,

Speaker 2: (29:12)
Right. Yeah. And I’m also like this, this isn’t really a digital parenting issue. This is just the parenting and boundaries issue. I mean, for me to digital issues or my child might be cyber bullied, or I’m concerned about screen time. Those are different things that I can really give you the legal background, the evidence based research, but you know, tantrums, we know how those

Speaker 1: (29:33)
Well, and I just, I think this is a great place to end that, uh, I remember there was literally a week, there was a week, uh, last year where

Speaker 2: (29:42)
I was like, guys, okay, no screens before bed. This article came out, check this out two days later, it’s like, screen time does not matter. And I was like, right. I don’t know what to do. So then in this case, I think what you’re saying, and it’s great advice, no guilt, no shame do what feels right for your family, balance it out. If your kids are losing their mind, it’s time to reevaluate. Exactly. And probably the most important piece in all of this is play with them. You know, he can, you know, just a few minutes, you know, just to, just to see what they’re doing, they’re going to be so excited that you’re in their world. Um, even though you might, you know, might not want to be there, but give him there and play with them and find out what they’re doing and, and it will change the way you see it.

Speaker 2: (30:27)
And you will also be able to intervene if you see something a little Cray, Cray, because let’s face it. There is a lot of great gray out there, but that’s a legal term by the way, take it from the lawyer. Okay. Elizabeth American people find yes, absolutely. So the best place I would say to find me and to hang out with me is I’m in the digital parenting community on Facebook. Um, and there I have other parents and grandparents and child online protection experts in cybersecurity, people, and even child psychologist, all in their tripping out trying to just, um, yeah. Get some information. Um, and I would say just as another place to find out a bit more about what I do is my website, which is digital parenting, coach.com. And there you’ll be able to see everything including, um, you know, the press because I am based in France. And so I have a, I’m the expert for France, 24 of the news stations I go on and talk. It’s a lot of fun. All of those things on the website. I love that. Thanks so much for joining us. It’s just too much fun, too much fun. Go play with your friends, go to games. Now

Speaker 3: (31:38)
[inaudible].