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You’re listening to the slumber party podcast with your host Amanda Jewson, a mom of two girls, a child and infant sleep expert and general sleep lover. If you’re a tired parent who is desperate for answers, or just someone who loves sleep, This podcast was created just for you. Each episode is packed full of tips and tricks to help you maintain your sanity, as well as your social life during the early stages of parenthood. So grab your headphones, it’s time to get comfy.
Hi, everybody, and welcome to another edition of the slumber party podcast. I’m Amanda juice. And I just told her guests Haley that if it looks like I’ve eaten nuclear waste, and I’m glowing, it’s because I can’t figure out my lighting, but I’m actually healthy and I haven’t eaten any waste. Um, speaking of waste diapers, I don’t know if that’s a good segue. I think it’s a bad one. We have Haley, who wrote me about having twins. And twins are no joke. People, I think. And I would put myself in this category before working with twins twin seems so crazy and so daunting. But I actually think that twin parents get that shit down real quick. And it really is about strategizing. So we’re gonna talk about some of that today. Welcome, Haley. How are you?
Good. Thank you so much for having me.
Oh, thank you. You look great.
Thank you. Um, okay, so I have a talk me through the twin story. What How did you find out? Was it a surprise to everything?
Yeah, so I was about six weeks pregnant. Um, and I had a little scare, I had some spotting. And it’s my first pregnancy. So I was super nervous. My husband and I like rushed to the hospital emergency rooms. And like, this was pre COVID. Two months now. We spent like, six hours, you know how emergency rooms can be waiting for them to, like, get the ultrasound for me to drink. And it was just so torturous. And all I wanted to know was like, Am I still pregnant? So towards the end, a nurse who was working with us, came up to me with this big smile on her face. And she’s like, I can’t tell you but it’s good news. And I was like, Huh, like, I kind of got a vibe. You know, I was like, yeah, yeah. We’re just like, one healthy baby.
Like, why do you like this is your job? Why are you so excited? Yeah, exactly. So
I didn’t tell my husband’s like, I didn’t want to freak him out. I didn’t want to like jump the gun. So then the doctor called us and he’s like, so your baby’s okay. We’re like, okay, and he’s like, and how many kids are you planning to have? And, yeah, so, um, has been just like, put his head in his hands. Like, no, no, no, no. And I’m like, it’s, he’s like, it’s twins. You have to have them in there. And we were just like to go from one extreme have to, I have twins. My mom. I’m like, so I’m still pregnant. But here’s the thing. There’s two and yeah, we were all freaking out. It was crazy. Yeah. So
sorry, go ahead. You go ahead.
I was gonna say six weeks. I think it’s pretty early because it’s before even my first official ultrasound. So, um, yeah, it was. It was pretty wild to find out that way.
I okay, so are there twins in your family? Because fraternal twins are hereditary, right?
Right. Yeah. I mean, I have cousins who are twins and stuff, but I never thought it’s not like my grandmother’s a twin or someplace super prominent. And then of course, I think it’s from the woman’s side. But when we found it after my husband’s great grandmother was a twin and there’s all these sorts of twins on his side. So it’s definitely like, they’re on both. Yeah, right.
I was out so my grandfather is a fraternal twin. My answer fraternal twins. And I was like, Oh my god, like every ultrasound I went into him like please just be one please just be one and it was always fun. And and I we have to like I would have been fine if the second was twins are the first but now we’re done because we know it will happen. This is a twin time it’s happening. So we’re done. Oh, that’s such a great story. I love how you were like, Oh my gosh, am I pregnant and they’re like you are not only pregnant, you are super pregnant. It will and you know how they say like you can just be a little bit pregnant. Well, you can be a lot pregnant. Okay, so talk to me, how old are the twins now? And give me a little rundown of what’s going on.
So they’re two months old, they just turned two months this week. Um, and they’re pretty good babies, I have to say, I mean, I don’t. Obviously, they’re my first that’s all I know. But, um, for the most part, they are pretty calm. They’re not super fuzzy. But now that they’re two months, sort of passed that like super infant phase. And I know, eventually, we’re going to have to get to live a normal sleep routine. I’m sort of where do I go? What do I do? Because right now, I mean, I’ll be completely honest, like, I’ve been, they nap during the day, but they nap in like, whatever is around. So I don’t. Yeah. Drake, like you’re going in the bassinet? Are you going in the pack and play? It’s like, yeah, you know, and this could be totally wrong. But like, they’re, you fell asleep in the swing? So I’m going to let you nap in the swing, like supervise, obviously, we’re on a lounger or whatever it is. But I know that, like, as they’re getting bigger. And as they’re starting to move more, I know that that’s not like a permanent because of how we’re going to get them. And I’m seeing that they’re not getting like a good nap in. During the day and and then, yeah, it’s like, No, I’m sort of, I mean, do I, if one was swept away with the other. And what we’ve been doing now is, if one wakes to feed, I wake up the other one to see so that they’re on the feeding schedule, that sort of my number one priority. Yeah. But other than that, I’d say I’m not super anal with times and scheduling. But I want to be because I know that’s probably the key to getting them. Sleep. Right.
And then sorry. So talk to me about your nights as well. So talk to me about what’s happening overnight.
So right now we have to bassinet on either side of the bed. And what will happen is around nine or 10, when we do that feed will kind of make sure that they eat like as much as possible, like the belief bowl, and then we put them down. So by like 10 3011, they’re in their bassinet sleeping. And just recently, they started sleeping through a little bit like sometimes it’s the thing, it’s not consistent, but where they’ve been sleeping till like three or four and missing that. Yeah, I’m missing that, like, one or two feet. So that’s, that that’s huge, because it allows you to actually get a few hours in. Yeah. So anyway, that’s me. Yeah, I’m at like, three, they feed and then then they’re back on three hours like six. Yeah. But I find one of them will. I can use them, right?
It’s up to it’s up to you can just use your first name or their first initial.
Okay, it’s just yeah, I’m so shy. Who’s my smaller guy, he usually goes down really easily, like at nighttime. He goes to bed. No, it takes a bit longer. I usually have to like rock him and hold him. But then I find shy at first one, he will wake up more throughout the night just like not even fully wake up, just make the noises and start to fuss a little bit and I cuz he was really small at birth, I think a little bit later than this brother. Right? He’s not, he doesn’t have any really self soothing, right? Like, geez, where I’m noticing Noah is able to like I’ll hear a little cry and then go kind of like, figure it out. Right.
Right. Right. Okay.
So, a little bit of that, you know, I’m trying I’m obviously home my husband’s working. I’m trying not to wake them in the middle of the night because even to function. Yeah, so I, um, you know, it’s working. But then because obviously nights like where one of them wakes up and is just not happy. They also have a shot yesterday, so we were extra sad.
That was my daughter’s first one to my kids did pretty well, but it was the second month shot. It was so sad. Okay, so it sounds like so we’re waking when the one wakes up Wi Fi the other. Otherwise it seems like you’re kind of just going with the flow for now. You’re looking For some advice on how to, I guess tighten up your day. Is that about right and then yeah, okay. So I would say that it sounds Sorry, go ahead. Did I cut you off? There
are like, some swaddle questions, but I didn’t have to mean Yeah.
Okay, good. I was gonna talk about swaddling too. So I’ll make sure to circle back to that. Um, okay. So, you know, first and foremost, it sounds like you have a really great attitude right now. I mean, is it’s you have two babies, all of a sudden, it is double the work. And obviously, I watched this amazing tic toc video the other day, where this woman is like, Yeah, I just had the best advice from anxiety. They told me to chill out. And that’s it. I’m cured. 10 years it’s over. And I always struggle with giving the advice like, be calm, cool and collected. You’re like, Yeah, thank you. I wish I could, and I but it does sound to me that you’re not super stressed, you’re kind of easygoing, you’re going with the flow. And that’s benefiting you, right? If you can get there, or if we can find moments of meditation to get to the point where you’re just like, it is what it is. And I’ll get to things as I get to it, they’ll nap and that swing supervised, Okay, sounds good. That will benefit you that’ll benefit you when you do want to tighten things up as well, because, and children and babies, they’re not robots, right? We can do, we can set the conditions we can provide the opportunities in the end our children, our children. That leads me into my next point of that your twins are not going to be the same person, as I’m sure you’ve already discovered, right? That you will, um, people when I work with twins, I’ll come in and they’ll be like this one is going to do the worst this one will be fine. Quite often, it’s the opposite. I don’t know why I don’t know why parents have an idea of you know, their foster baby or maybe the foster baby or was just ready, more ready to do that sleep. But babies tend twins tend to have a different sleep personality. So one baby like sleep more than the other they made sleep longer than the other they might I guess be a little more easy, breezy. Or, like take longer in the process. It’s actually a good reminder that no two babies are alike. Even twins. Are you listening? And I and I like to stress this because my clients will be like my friends babies same age, same gender. their babies are sleeping through the night. Why is my leaving us sleeping through the night? Or this baby doesn’t need to eat? What does my baby need to eat at night. And it’s like, it’s just your baby. We’re not robots, I can’t make something happen if the baby isn’t ready. So if one BB is, you know, outperforming I hate using that word, but like sleeping better or like easier than the other, it doesn’t mean that the other is, you know, not developing correctly or whatever. It just means they’re who they are. And it’s probably going to manifest into something like, quite like I always and I’m using the story to you because you haven’t heard it. But everyone who’s listened to the season so far has, but I was talking about how my oldest daughter so spirited, she has a lot of like, she just wonderful and confident and like says witchy things. And that is always been her like when she was a baby and she didn’t want to sleep she’d be like, No, I’m not, I’m not I’m not. And it’s just like, that’ll probably turn into something very lovely later on. Um, so know that going into the process would you probably already do. The big thing about that that most twin parents want. And again, this is not what I’m saying you have to do to anyone listening was like, I don’t care, I just want to do what I want, then you should do what you want. But what a lot of my twin parents want to do is they want to have some sort of predictability. They want to have some sort of like, I want my days to look kind of the same. I don’t want this one sleeping at 10 and this one at 11. And all I’m doing is managing naps all day. You can get away with that with one baby where you’re like, I don’t care how you sleep, just sleep, whatever. So generally, when I’m doing quote unquote sleep learning, sleep training, however you want to call it providing opportunities for children to sleep. We do it after four months, but those twin parents are so on it. When I get there. They’re like yeah, this is what rat did dah, dah. This is what we do. We wake this one, this one goes in and we rock the boat. So it’s it’s a lot of them have to do that as a survival skill in order to like maintain their day. So Say that you’re, it’s working now probably as they get a little more alert and aware and aware of all of this stuff, it’ll be harder to just be a little more willy nilly about their naps for you.
And I think that one of the things that we can start doing is working on a weak window for both. That might mean, you know, when you start your day at, let’s say, 738 is the other one is sleeping, you have to wake them up. And I actually did a show yesterday, where they’re talking about common baby sleep misconceptions, this is one of them, you can wake a sleeping baby, and don’t feel bad about it, it’s okay, especially they’ll get used to it when we’re trying to realign a circadian rhythm or a body rhythm or sleep rhythm, we might have to help our babies along and that’s okay. So you might want to start doing something like you wake them up at the same time you work on the same weight window, and roughly within the half hour. So for Devi is still sleeping, it’s been an hour and the other cells sleeping, give that one one half hour, if you want, and then wake them up. And then you can go from there. And it’s totally possible to do that. And you know, it could be like, okay, you’re both in your swings right now. And you’re both, we’re going to go for a walk right now, even if you wanted to start off. Now at two months, you can’t really do a lot of like sleep training, we’ll need to wait that. And when I talk about sleep training, I’m talking about independence leave. babies don’t really know how to sleep this young and it’s going to be a pain for you to kind of teach them and you know, make that happen all of the time. I mean, they can like developmentally, it’s just a two months, they can’t really do the work as well as a four month olds can see medical wait. So if you want to, at the very least for like a week, like I’m going to make sure that you nap at this time, I’m going to do that. And we’re going to go for a walk and do our nap on the go. So everyone naps at the same time. And then you can try more like, okay, maybe I’ll try to put you down in your bassinet stuff. The next week when they’ve sort of developed that body timing thing that’ll be really helpful
to start with where and then but not when and then move to like putting it more in a structured places. Well,
yeah, like I think what most twin parents want is like their timings to be aligned during the day. And I think Yeah, and I think you can do that by controlling the environment or controlling when the baby’s sleep. Generally parents get lucky because they are, if you do something like a stroller nap, if your babies are like mine, they’re out in whatever. So at two months, you’re looking at a week window of roughly an hour, hour and a half, they wake up or a half later, you’re going to make that nap happen. They wake up, take them home play to the hour and a half later, you make that nap haven’t go for another walk. And if you did that for like three or four days to a week, that’s gonna set in motion some sort of like for schedule for lack of a better for a better word, you have them kind of doing the same thing. Then like after three or four days or your day seven, you do something where you’re like, Okay, I’m going to put, we did our walk at like 9am. I’m going to put you in your bassinet at 9am because your body is ready to go down. Now. That’s what we’ve sort of trained your body to do. Yeah. So then, sorry, go ahead. You had a question about swaddles. That’s where I was gonna jump into, and
then I it sort of relates to that. So when I’m putting them like obviously not for the swing or the stroller or the but when they’re when I eventually want them to nap in their bassinet, or am I swaddling them during the day?
Yeah, all sleep situations, you should be swaddling them. It’s okay. You don’t want to. So the concerns with over swaddling or swaddling too much are around the idea that we like take babies and we wrap them up like burritos and keep them like that all day all night. And then we have things like hip dysplasia hip issues, it’s okay to swaddle them for sleep for naps and for night. Anything that you can replicate that you’re doing at night that’s working do it during the day as well. There is if they need if they’re doing good stretches and it sounds like they are with this model. Definitely implement that into your daytime, for sure. And that’s what Oh, sorry, go ahead.
No, I was gonna say I have a Cheyenne loves the hands up, you know, the
remaps a lot of meat. Yeah, yeah. He does. That one and I have my other one Noah in like the traditional burrito. Yeah. So for one he is he’s generally the easier baby you were saying they kind of take turns like yeah, different. Classy, but when it comes I can’t. I pretty much can’t swaddle them away is usually at night. What I do is after I feed them, I’ll rock him or I have one of those twin feeding pillows.
Unknown Speaker 20:31
comfy. So sometimes I’ll leave him in that clothes off all the lights and just like ignore him. Like, he’s not doesn’t cry, he’s just awake. Like we say he has FOMO because he just gotta like, know what? And then once he’s sleeping, I swaddle him and very carefully carry him to his bassinet. But I don’t know if there’s like, I think with him, it’s an arm thing. Is there? Is there one other difference model whether you’d recommend us just working on it?
I think if so, it’s the that’s fine if it’s working now obviously in your in your supervising him in the pillow. Disclaimer, disclaimer. It’s, it’s more that I feel like there will be an end date to that where at around three months, he becomes more aware of you moving him and then wakes up near Liga. So while you’re in this spot, it’s probably a good idea to try out a few different swaddles. The Ergo cocoon is basically like a tight I don’t want to say it’s, yeah, it has a zipper. Yeah, it is, but it allows babies to move their hands within that, which is okay, what we’re actually trying to avoid is the startle reflex to wake them up. So if you’re watching me, you know what I’m doing. If you’re not I have my hands up like a starfish moving them. And that is what wakes babies up. So as long as even if they’re like doing it, it’s going to lessen the blow. The other option is zippity. zip, which is a swaddled transition product. And that is like, again, they look like little starfish, isn’t it? It has four corners. If they’re starting to roll, it’s safe for them to roll back and forth. That might be something as well where he has a lot of movement, but it restricts that that startle reflex for him which will be helpful. But yeah, my I talked about this in another episode, one of my teammates. Andrea has a great swaddle post on her Instagram, and it’s all about you know the different types of swaddles, the 800 swaddles that she tried, it really is a crapshoot, it’s really about finding the ones for your kids that they like, and then at around the three or four month mark, weaning off of that swaddle because they’re going to start to roll and the quicker that we can get away from that the better in my opinion, I mean, sorry, go ahead. I keep interrupting you. I’m sorry, there’s a delay.
I have to be finger tight the sleep sets with the open arms. Wait until they’re until they are startling less like when they say zero to six months, all those sleep fast and different. But would you recommend holding off on using that for a month or two?
I would I mean, just personally, personally and professionally. I haven’t seen weaning off a swaddle before two months be a good thing I had, my daughter was so huge. My first baby. Well, both of them were huge, but they could never, they never lasted in their swaddles. And I’ve read somewhere is like, well, it’s time for them to get out. And I was like, Oh, yeah, but that’s advice based on the idea that if you have a 15 pound baby, they’re probably four months. They’re not one and a half months. They are older. My kids are massive. I don’t know why. I mean, I had an insane supply. And I probably like I didn’t know but this until I had kids, but there was always like, when you were in a tribe, there was like the woman who fed the tribe. And I think that’s what I was supposed to do. Woman, I would be that woman, I could feed your baby, your baby, your baby, your baby, everyone’s baby. And when I had my second baby, holy cow, my midwife came over him and was like, I was like, I think my milk said and she’s like, How do you know? I’m like, well, it feels like my breasts are full of rocks. And she’s like, oh, and I was like, I think I need to pump. She’s like, well, if you do that, it’s just gonna come back. I’m like, I hear what you’re saying. But you need to feel this. And she was like, you have to pump you’re going to get the status. I’m like, Yeah, I know. That’s what I do. So yeah, I had a look. But anyway, they were giant jVb. She was like breaking out of her swaddle. And it was like the worst, she was doing five, six hours stretches, and then she went down to like every one to two hours waiting. So I don’t suggest it, the startle reflex can last anywhere up to like four to five months. So if you have to do anything, I would do a swaddle transition, like the zippity before you do full arms out. If you’re going to still continue with burrito, swallow, swaddling, then you’re just going to do it one hand at a time. So like, slowly, like you’re going to put out one arm and then slowly loosen it. That’s what I did. Because we didn’t have all of these amazing swaddles back in the day, all six years ago, it does feel so long ago, because everything is changed. But yeah, there’s so many different products now. Um, so then the other thing, you know, for twins in general, and you’re kind of doing this is, again, there’s lots of different advice out there. Whether it I mean, if you’re breastfeeding, feeding on demand is always recommended. There are going to be people who are just like, absolutely, like, that’s not for me, I can’t do that. So for most of my twin parents, that’s what they they don’t want to be feeding on demand overnight. So they, they will, when one wakes, then they wake the other. And I mean, by feeding on demand is that usually one baby demands it and the other one needs to woken for that. And I would continue to do that. If that’s what is working for you. Just to keep your sanity, because being awake, essentially, you’re signing up to be awake all night. If you are open again, if you’re not ignore this, you may What are you bottle feeding or breastfeeding? I wasn’t clear on that.
No, I’m, I’m like exclusively formula bottle feeding. I was breastfeeding in the first few weeks. And then my husband went back to work. And I was like, all I’m doing all day is pumping and pumping and pumping and feeding. And I was just going a little bit crazy. So
yes, yeah, for sure. I mean, no. Who cares? Also, you could just be like, I don’t want to. And that’s all you need to say him. But you are real
phase. But now I’m like, especially because they’re growing. And because my one guy was super small in the hospital, they sort of recommended that I supplement with formula to get his weight up. So it was always a part of like what we were doing and then right. Yeah, it was. It was a
Yeah, it was it gave you back your sanity. Right. And that’s my whole thing about what I do is I give parents or sanity back. And and so I feel like if you need to not breastfeed to feel like a sane person, then that’s what you need to do. Because that’s what your kids need. Your kids need the same parents above everything.
Hundred percent. Yeah, my husband saw where it was like, even because I’m sure you remember from breastfeeding so much. It’s like, it’s just physically, emotions, especially in the first few weeks are just so wild. So the mix of it all I was like, I’m not myself on a whole other level I need Yeah. You know, of course, after you invest, like hundreds of dollars in a pump, and I do it
all, you’ve seen every single lactation consultant, and then you’re like, just getting it just give me the formula, please. Yeah. I think it’s, um, I think so. Okay, if you’re breastfeeding, you may want to pump a bottle for your partner to get more involved in that process to kind of share the load if you don’t want to feed on demand. I think that investing in some help if you can, whether that’s through your family, or through, you know, a night nurse or a nanny, like whatever you have, and it doesn’t, I mean, these are boujee recommendations, but it doesn’t have to be that right. Like, you can just say, Mom, I need you to come over for an hour. And I’m just gonna go do whatever I can or might your aunt or your friend and people are just dying to do it. So definitely find a way to help your baby, especially with twins. Some people are not going to like this suggestion, but find a way to get a bottle into them so you can do other things. It’s important to do that with two babies. So I’m set with formula you’re already doing that. Obviously what you could do is pre make the bottles and refrigerate warm up. That’s something that you can do to kind of help yourself at night. You probably do have like a formula maker now.
I have the brezza Yeah, the Keurig The best thing that and I just saw them, our doctor had advised us to use ready to feed until two months ago, which was like fortune, but we just switched over to powder. It’s the easiest thing in the world. Like,
it’s just unbelievable.
Temperature You want it? Uh huh. I’m unbelief. But I actually been. We’ve been lucky we were living with my parents waiting for, for moving out next. Well, really good husband next week. So we’re in the process of moving. So I’ve been super lucky because I actually have my mom home most days. So I I listened to like my mom friends and they were like, use it use it use it. So yeah. I even if I just like, need to run to Walmart for 10 minutes. I’m like, you need to like go leave the house literally. Yeah. Like, yeah, you’re my mom
really came home. I just thought of this Aaron that I need to run right now. And it’s only at Walmart. And it’s only at the Walmart that’s farthest from here. So I got to do
this baby thing for my mom like, yeah, so um, and even just to have her help with the feeding, it’s been huge. So yeah, I definitely want like to get my mind thinking more scheduled. Especially because I will be like, she’ll still be around to help. It’ll be you know, alone.
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think if you were to do these things now that’s really gonna set you up for if you want to save train post that if you need to sleep train, that’ll really help you with like scheduling and all of that stuff. For anyone, you know, in the point of sleep training, you may want to be thinking about something like essentially what I am saying but but make sure that when you’re doing your nap stuff for your night stuff, it’s generally around the same time. And that if you’re still doing night feedings that you’re you’re aligning the night feedings. The other big question that I get, we’re almost we’re we’re verging into like good nap territory. And I try to keep these podcasts crop nap territory. But, um, the other thing that I get a lot of questions about is like, whether or not twins should sleep together. Most twins do fine. sleeping together. I suggested. I mean, they’ve been together since conception, there will be okay. In the early days, if you’re choosing to sleep train, you may want to separate them. You may not it may take a little bit longer if one doesn’t get it over the other. But generally, it takes the same amount of time. I always give parents an option. In the end, we always move babies back together within like a few days.
Really? Mm hmm. That’s for um, because in the bassinet right now, we wouldn’t really fit together.
Oh, I mean, sorry. I mean, in the same room, in the same room together. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. Great clarification.
Yeah, that was a good question. I did have because we were planning to just keep them in the same room. Yeah. cribs just because like, no, they’re little they should be in the US at night. Yeah. Going. Going into one room. Yeah. And for the most part, at least, like you said, because they’re not super aware yet. They don’t like each other. I don’t know. If that typical or
the generally will turn I mean, they sleep through each other sounds like my girls, they’re not twins, but they do share REM and they have slept through some pretty insane stuff. So yeah, like twins especially. We’ll have that down.
Okay, I’m kind of thing I know I had like another question for you. Oh, tummies okay. So they, and I think it’s like a little bit gas related because when they have fancy tummies, it feels good to put pressure on their tummy. Um, when they sleep on us on their stomach, like super peaceful, they fall asleep instantly. And this morning, I had them on their tummies on with a mat and one of them fell asleep on his stomach hurt. He was just like so comfortable. So I put his brother in the same on the same mat. And I just put up you know, I didn’t like belly down. He turned his head and they both fell asleep and I was obviously watching them the whole time. Yeah, but what’s your advice? What are your thoughts on like supervised tummy, sleeping
so My advice always has to be we can’t do it if you wanted to. If you were to have that discussion with your doctor and weigh the pros and cons, I think it’s, it’s worth having that discussion. I always have to because I’m not a medical professional, I have to be very careful about any suggestion that I make. And then I have to talk about like SIDS recommendations. What I will say is that what you’re probably finding is accurate that kids love to sleep on their tummies. And generally, when kids figure out how to roll from back to front, they love it and they sleep longer stretches, they connect their cycles, well, it’s great. But that is really safe when they can do that on their own. Because the risk is that they can’t get up or their face gets into a position or they’re in a situation where it’s not safe for them to be. So when your child is rolling front of back, it’s okay. But even then, doctors are pretty adamant that even when your child can roll, and they like to sleep on their stomach, you need to put them on their back. I will see from like a behavioral standpoint as well. If you think about all of the activities that you do before you go to sleep, it’s a series of tossing and turning. And it’s a whole routine. Getting them from the back to the front could be a part of that routine. And you don’t want to take that piece of the routine out of it. Do you know what I’m saying? So because that could be something that they’re like, Ooh, I like that. Algo my stomach now I’m ready for sleep. So I think it’s worth continuing to put them on, on their back to sleep even if they are moving proper. But for I mean, I get this question a lot. I always deflect to a medical professional, and you can talk about it with your doctor and get the okay from him or her or him. Well, we are at a point we are at 36 minutes. And if you’re a baby, it’s been 36 minutes. You’re living your best life. So we’re going to say goodbye, Haley, you have been a dream and a pleasure to talk to you. I hope this helps. And if you have any other questions, concerns about baby sleep, head on over to the blog or my Instagram at babies best sleep, where I talk at your face about sleep whether you like it or not. Have a great day. Thank you. Bye