S2E4: Alana Kayfetz: A CEO Talks Sleep! | Baby's Best Sleep

Amanda: (00:00)
Hey everybody, welcome to another edition of slumber party. I invite you to my slumber party, except unlike the ones you attended in the 90s. This one actually includes sleep for you, your children, and the entire family. Every week I have any unique guest or I answer a fun question about sleep to get you in your family the sleep that you need. This is a judgment free zone. All types of sleep are encouraged. So put on your headphones, walk around for the duration of a crap nap and just enjoy yourself. This week’s guest is Atlanta Kayfetz, who is the CEO of MomsToronto, hosts the podcast Moms That Say Fuck and in general is a pretty awesome person. You can follow her on Instagram @momstoronot or at @akayfetz. She’s great. She shares her stories of sleep with her and her family. Sleep training, both her son Elias and her daughter Essa. We had a really great conversation and we jumped into a pretty deep conversation on parenting and motherhood. So you’ll definitely enjoy this episode. Thanks to Alana for joining us! I love Alana’s energy. I know that you will too. If you don’t follow her already and I just, I don’t understand how that would be possible, but if you don’t, now’s the time! Enjoy the episode.

Speaker 1: (01:33)
Kaylee, Anna. Hey, do you sin well mans what up, girlfriend? Alana and I have been on this call for maybe 12 minutes already. Uh, and I’ve been trying to get something to work on my audio things that just isn’t so Lynn has been patiently like doing things and being awesome. Well, I do that. So I hope I didn’t zap your energy. You just still need like two more sips of coffee. If that’s the case I’m getting here. Let’s do that. The Atlanta, tell us about yourself. Who are you?

Alana: (02:11)
Hey everybody. My name is Alana Kayfetz, super nice to be here. Thank you Amanda Jewson for inviting me to the Slumber Party. What am I? I’m a, I’m a bad ass mother fucker. No, I’m a mom of two kids and I’m a side-hustler turned main hustler. I was in the nonprofit community for about 12 years and I think I would position myself as an expert at community building in person and online, I sort of like grew up on Facebook, so to speak. So I have like a pretty good understanding of how to like speak the language of our people, millennial moms primarily. And I’m the founder of Moms Toronto and all the offshoots like Moms Hamilton, DadsTO, ToddlersTO, Mom’s New York and MomFest. So I sort of live and breathe the mama world and I’ve made Amanda Jewson, you know, part of my peeps. Were each other’s peeps, I would say.

Amanda: (03:15)
I pursued, being part of your peeps for a long time before I was. I was like, “Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi.” Oh God.

Alana: (03:27)
See I don’t remember that! I just, all of a sudden you showed up one day. I’m like, who is this angel?

Amanda: (03:30)
Who are…? You’re so funny. I would like, I don’t know if you’re just like trying to save my rep, but I remember when I first started to be a consultant, I was just like, I want to surround myself with people, like my people. Right? And I just felt like you are my people. So I remember sending you a few emails to be like, “Hey girl, what’s going on? Do you need any support in anything? Let me know.” And then I found out we’re in the same like mom group together on Facebook. I was like, “Hi Alana, we live, we must live in the same neighbourhood!!” I don’t know how it happened, but it did. And I don’t care.

Alana: (04:10)
Well for those of you who are listening, Amanda Jewson is maybe one of the most, honestly like a dynamo sleep consultant. She, her personality is literally the cat’s Meow. Like this girl…

Amanda: (04:28)
Stop stop stop.

Alana: (04:28)
She’s saying stop but she’s actually saying more more!

Amanda: (04:28)
Go on, Record it! I want to play it later.

Alana: (04:34)
There is no one like Amanda Jewson, like I laugh like knee-slap-laugh when we’re together, but also just like a fantastic human. So she asked me to do anything. I’m just like, I’m in. So let’s talk sleep!

Amanda: (04:51)
Thank you. And you had me on your super highly successful podcast that you haven’t mentioned or maybe you did.

Alana: (04:57)
Moms That Say Fuck!

Amanda: (04:57)
And it’s honestly so good. I listen to it every single time. I always learn something. The last episode you’re on season two, the last episode you had Tia Slightham.

(05:13)
Yes, I think we’ve released something else beyond that.

Amanda: (05:16)
Oh you have. You have, I’m just behind! I need to listen to my podcast about the real Housewives first, Alana. I have priorities. No, so it’s so good. I need to to plug this for you because it is really good. I was a guest on the podcast and that actually got my podcast juices flowing because it was so fun and such a great way to meet people in and talk about things. But yeah, I think why I absolutely needed to have you was because you are so frigging funny. I really want to talk about your sleep training. I guess your thoughts on sleep, yours, your kids, your sleep training journey, all that good stuff. Cause you gotta you have, you have a story that needs to be told. I think in detail, cause you had mentioned it on the Moms That Say podcast, but it was only in passing and I spent the whole rest of the episode being like I want to know more about that night.

Alana: (06:22)
Yes, sure. Okay. So I have two kids and my sleep journey with my kids was a little bit fucked, which is if you’re a first time parent and you’re listening to this, like sleep is fucked. Okay. Parenting is fucked. And what I always say is that when you enter the parenting realm, there are some things that maybe you are aware of and some things you’re not aware of and some things that are just the cadence of parenting. The cadence of parenting is like you’re going to have a hard time breastfeeding. I can guarantee it. Basically, unless you’re the 1/10 who didn’t. You’re gonna have a hard time with sleep. I can guarantee it. You’re going to have a hard time with fucking feeding your kid. I think guarantee it. Because these things are the things that can consume us. And there’s two different types of people in the world. People who like are completely consumed by this and it, it can destroy them or some people who like find strategies to deal with these things. And what’s great about being a mom, a millennial mom in 2019, is there’s so much fucking information out there. And the idea is to not, um, I say pick one person to be your Sherpa on motherhood. Like one person that you are going to be in there halo, you’re going to be in their harem and they’re going to introduce you to ways of doing stuff. So you can listen to like, you know, the advice of 10 people, but that’s probably not the best idea. Find a mom that you think is cool and listen to what she has to say and let that be the person who sort of like helps you get through the early ages and stages of parenting. So when it comes to sleep for me, I had a person in my life and a friend who I thought was just the coolest person ever. And she started telling me about sort of different things, whatever. And when we started talking about sleep training or sleeping in general, I was sort of like, had no clue what I was doing. Honestly. I was listening to everybody, like anyone who had advice, I was like, ‘you tell me advice, you….’ It’s like, ‘are you my mom? Are you my mom?’ Like I was looking for advice everywhere. And I was so confused. Feed the baby, don’t feed the baby. Rock the baby, you don’t rock the baby. Take the baby for a drive and make sure the baby is staying still. Literally every like sleep, like, path I could’ve gone down, I went down my first time I was a mom because I didn’t understand that there was like basically a recipe book for success.

Amanda: (08:35)
Yeah. Can I stop you just for a second?

Alana: (08:40)
No I’m just gonna keep talking nonstop for 30 minutes!

Amanda: (08:44)
I could do it!

Alana: (08:45)
Is this a dialogue?

Amanda: (08:46)
It’s a monologue and ahh no. No, but I just really want to emphasise this part that you said, that I also had that mom in my life and, and you’ve really articulated that well. I didn’t, I don’t think I’ve ever articulated it. Where I had that mom where I was like, fuck, she’s got it together. And like it seems like… Or maybe not that she has it all together, but it’s like, I just like the way they’re living their life. Like when I think about when I have my kids, I want it to look like that and then I would just call this person endlessly.

Alana: (09:20)
Yes, exactly.

Amanda: (09:21)
And I’d be like “Okay, now tell me exactly what you did!”

Alana: (09:24)
Right. That’s it. Like you find that person and I think I’ve become that person for a lot of people. So in the fall we’re launching something called the Mom Halo. I’m not sure when this is gonna launch, but it’s literally that. It’s like be in my community, be in this, be in the circle of people that I trust. And if you like, I’m not for everybody. I can just be your entertainer. But if you want to like go for a deep dive and being like, we are in our change our lives together, we’re going to make motherhood rock and this isn’t life coaching and this isn’t fucking business coaching. This is me like, like amplifying and digging deep and saying like, we can rock motherhood together and this is how. So I’m excited for that. And Jewson’s obviously going to be part of that in some capacity. So stay tuned for the MomHalo coming to you in September, 2019. Small plug for that. But look, sleep is jarring and I’m somebody who like, you know, I was never a morning person. I was somebody who like, I like to sleep. I think when I was a kid I had like unhealthy sleeping habits, like went to bed at 11 o’clock at night. And I remember from in high school, coming home and like taking naps every day after high school. And then probably in my adulthood, I started working out in the morning, like getting to a gym at 6:30am, and doing that for like four or five years. So sleeping for me has always been like, I’m consistently inconsistent. So the only time I’ve ever been consistent in my sleep strategies is when I had a kid and I had no choice when it was somebody else’s vulnerable life that I had to be responsible for. So in walks, you know, people in my community and my like network started talking about “How are you sleep training?” “Are you sleep training?” And it was like one of those things where it’s like, “What is sleep training?!”

Amanda: (10:57)
“What is sleep training?!”

Alana: (10:57)
What am I supposed to do? I don’t understand! So I had this girl, her name is Kim who in my community of friends who, our kids were the same age, at the same stage in 2016 and she’s like, “Oh, somebody paid somebody a sleep consultancy fee and here’s a screenshot of everything they talked about.” It was like totally a rip off. It really wasn’t fair to be honest, but it’s like, here’s the whole recipe book and how you sleep. And I was like, okay.

Amanda: (11:22)
I mean like I feel like… you’ve mentioned that to me before, you’re like, “I’ll never do that again.” Here’s the thing for, for some people reading that screenshot is going to work for them and it’s going to be fine. And then for a huge amount of people, that’s going to be a plan for someone else and they’ll be like, “Oh my God, sleep training doesn’t work.” So warning, warning, warning, go ahead and try that thing. It’s why like when people are like, “should I hire you or should I buy this book?” Like for a lot of people that book is going to work, but if you’re doing things in the book or you’re doing in the plan and it’s not working, there’s something else going on. And then that’s when you call me.

Alana: (11:57)
Well that’s it. So what happened was, I think before my son Elias was six months old, we had been on like eight flights or something. So I knew that like I wasn’t going to start training until he was six months old and I had spoken to another sleep consultant who is also well known. Can I say her name? Is that okay?

Amanda: (12:15)
Of course. Of course.

Alana: (12:16)
Sorry I don’t know what the rules are! So Eva Klein was the only sleep consultant. I had known at the time. And she is great. And she was going through your process of also launching her business similarly to when I started moms, Toronto. So I sort of had like a 15 minute free consultation with her, but it didn’t really, there was some like sleep advice there and tips, but I just went on this document, this like girl that I knew who I trusted sent me a document and I said to my husband one night, “okay, the day of Elias turns six months old, we’re going to start sleep training.” Because I was up like, I remember taking Instagram videos. Actually I think it was on Snapchat back then, and I was snapping at like three in the morning, two in the morning. I’d be like “Party at my crib!” Like “Who ordered a bottle of Rose and white?” Like, you know, all those stupid shit cliches. But I remember Snapchatting like all hours of the night and part of it is like I was wearing it as stripes, almost being like, “Oh, I’m up. Like look at me. I’m up.” You know. And I was like fuck this I need to sleep.

Amanda: (13:10)
Which is the luxury of being a first time mom…that is a luxury.

Alana: (13:15)
It is. Yes. So Elias had strong sleep skills, but I didn’t realise it at the time because I was interfering all the time. And part of it was like somebody told… True, it wasn’t until I met you Jewson that I realised like my kids both had strong sleep skills, like natural sleeping skills, but I just with Elias, I fucked him up because I was listening to everybody. Don’t let him suck his thumb. Where’s the pacifier? You’re gonna have orthodontics, you don’t want that sort of shit. And I was like, what I’ve come to learn is, guess what? They need orthodontics regardless. So fuck everybody. And if they can get their fucking finger and their thumb early on, like don’t interfere. Don’t, because the pacifier falls the fuck out. So, so much mixed messaging in those early stages. So I digress with Elias. That’s what had happened. I was so confused about what way was up. Dr… had a good sheet on sleeping, but still I didn’t understand it. Like first moms will totally get that, and second moms don’t realise how fucked, they don’t know it until they, I think, they have multiple children, but like it is fucked. When you’re a first time mom, you are literally navigating waters that you just like, there’s no handbook here. There’s really no recipe. And the problem with being like a millennial mom, is like we’re really bad at being beginners. Like we all have our MBAs or we all fucking like rocked university or we dropped out of school and became an entrepreneur. Or like if you’re really pretty, that was your thing. If you’re really smart, that was your thing. You know, if you’re like really organised, a type A, or if you’re like me, and you’re sort of like an A/B type, you know, you’re not good at not knowing how to do shit. So like you’re sort of looking anywhere, the wind blows and you’re sort of reaching for, grasping at straws, so to speak. So what’s nice about where things have sort of landed for me and sort of having Amanda, sort of really close by, like physically and emotionally close by, is that, with Elias, we had a funny experience. So basically the strategy was called, I don’t even know what it’s called, but basically you’re in the room and you put the kid to sleep and all of a sudden you’re like, “SHHHHH” and you start doing the talk cues, and every day you say, “it’s okay Elias, we’re here Elias”, whatever it is. And the next thing you just say, “SHHHHH” and then the next day you say “SHHHHH” every minute and next thing you leave the room, I don’t know what it’s called. I don’t know what that strategy is called, but that’s the strategy. And the idea is you’re in the room and you cover the crib with a sheet so they can’t see you. They can just hear you. And they’re doing verbal cues. So if I say that to my husband, like, I need support from you to do the sleep training stuff. And he was game because we both weren’t sleeping. So it was literally the day Elias got his like shots or whatever. We decided to start the sleep training strategy. So we’re lying on the floor of his room and my husband and I are a little like pervy and gross and I was like, “Babe, I can’t do this without a drink.” So we literally brought scotch into the nursery and the more we sleep trained him, I mean I think he cried for, if you’d asked me how long it was, I can’t even remember. But he was definitely crying. I mean it wasn’t, and we’re saying “it’s okay, Elias” “SHHHHH” and then we’re like drinking. And when we decided to make a little game out of it, almost every time he escalated, which was part of the strategy, we took a sip of our Scotches or whatever. And before I knew it, my husband and I are lying on the floor of our nursery and saying, “it’s okay, Elias.” And then we’d like start making out. And before we knew it we we’re like *kissing noises* “Elias, It’s okay.” *kissing noises*. And like we hadn’t gotten down in a long time. Is sleep training sort of like this, like sexy thing?! *Laughter*

Amanda: (16:44)
Honestly, the promise or even the thought of sleeping eight hours got you guys ready. You’re like so turned on right now. Eight hours of sleep.

Alana: (16:53)
Yeah

Amanda: (16:55)
Yeah, this is, um, it’s funny because when people think of it, sleep training, they are often terrified of the experience. You have a very, like I got to say, none of my in-home consultations have ended like that, thankfully. Thankfully that would be a very different service.

Alana: (17:14)
Yes. So that was part of it. It was just like a hilarious story that me and Matt realised that no one else is doing is that we’d like make out on the floor of the nursery while we were getting drunk and then like, crawl out. And then this was like, he was in bed at like seven and we like first started that bedtime routine of like bed, bath, book, bottle, whatever it was. And we were using those tools and I remember coming downstairs and him like going to sleep and then him not waking up and being like, Holy fucking shit. Like that fucking worked. Whatever it was, it fucking worked.

Amanda: (17:44)
Yeah.

Alana: (17:44)
So over the course of those three days, within three days, he was sleep trained and that kid basically had no sleep regressions, no sleep issues, maybe a spattering here and there. And the truth is, even if he did, I fucking forgot about it. Like we’re in a family that’s sleeping right now. So you know, it’s like any other stage when you’re in it, it feels completely inescapable and defines you. And as the woman, as the mother, often it’s your responsibility to solve every problem. So it’s not like the father was like, “let’s find a sleep consultant.” It’s like the mother was like, “Get him sleeping right now.” Right. So that…

Amanda: (18:15)
Although it does, it does happen. I have lots of, dads call me.

Alana: (18:19)
Oh really? Awesome!

Amanda: (18:20)
Well I think that like if, and I’ve been there where like you’re so in the problem, you don’t know that there’s a problem. So dad is gently maybe being like, “Hey, I’ve booked a call with this person. We just talk and see what she thinks. And then we go from there.” That happens a lot.

Alana: (18:38)
That’s a good thing.

Amanda: (18:39)
It is a good thing!

Alana: (18:41)
I like that a lot.

Amanda: (18:42)
So with Essa..

Alana: (18:46)
Yes.

Amanda: (18:47)
I helped there. It was you and, and Matt, there was no making out. Maybe, maybe after I left.

Alana: (18:58)
I had other strategies there, which was, we had booked a Vegas trip and I was leaving my two children, and Essa was four and a half months old, from a Wednesday to a Sunday. So Wednesday, Thursday, Friday… So five days. Leaving them, without me. And I was like, if I’m going to be leaving these kids, Essa, she has to be sleeping through the night. And at the time, I don’t know if she was sleeping through the night, so I don’t know. Was, she’s sleeping through the night yet? I don’t think so. I don’t even remember how many times she was waking up, but Essa did give us a good like, every 90 minutes co-sleeping situation for awhile because I was nursing her all night, so that was bad. So Essa, Essa was a good sleeper, but you told me very early on and honestly it was the podcast juice and now that I think about it, you said, we said, what’s the biggest piece of advice you can give to parents? And you said, put your kid down many times a day and see what happens. Like don’t interfere basically is what you said.

Amanda: (20:34)
Yes.

Alana: (20:35)
Like put them down and see what happens. And I remember I was in Florida, so it was nine weeks old and I just put her down like, “Oh, you seem tired. I’m going to put you down.” And she like found her thumb and closed her eyes and went to sleep. And I remember being like, “Oh my God, Amanda Jewson was correct.” Don’t interfere, just let them try. See if they have the skill. So by the time she was ready to sleep train a few months later you said to me like, Essa has skill, not all kids have skill. You know. And I was like, you’re right. I didn’t realise she fucking had skill cause I want to interfere. Right. And I remember actually taking videos and being like, “Oh my God, I’m just going to let her fall asleep.”

Amanda: (21:10)
YES!

Alana: (21:11)
And I was recording it cause I was in such shock and this is such a juxtaposition to Elias where I was like bouncing and rocking and doing all these things. And I realise now that I probably should have just backed the fuck off. You know, that’s it.

Amanda: (21:24)
Well we watch every movie and every movie has this like bopping, shushing, patting. And then you feel like, and I, I had this to a certain degree where it’s like, “Oh, I have to put the baby’s asleep. I need to help them sleep.” And then it wasn’t until I read everything and it was like, no, you can put them down awake. And I think as new parents we’re really freaked out about putting our child down and kind of leaving. I remember even the first time I put Winnie to bed upstairs and I came downstairs, I felt totally disconnected from her body. I was like, “Oh, this feels so weird.” So it does feel a little bit counterintuitive, but the more you do it, the easier it is. And we were joking the night with Essa. I remember, cause we had an in-home consultation, I came to your home, I was like, all right, I’m here for the three hours. Let’s do this. She cried for 20 minutes, fell asleep, and then we just sat on your couch and had a glass of wine. And then I was like, if you just wanted to hang out, you should’ve just called me because nothing happened! She, like, if you start with that base, even if you have to do sleep training later on, it’s usually a lot less horrible than, than people assume.

Alana: (22:42)
Well, that’s it. And I think what was interesting that Essa from four and a half months, which seemed really early to me, is that when Essa turned six months, I was like, I can’t believe with Elias there was basically, you know, a month and a half more of not sleeping. Right. But like, I couldn’t believe how long I had let it go. But with Essa, I think Elias, at least, I think I was doing one dream feed a night, and with Essa, it was nothing. Like it went from like, she still fusses a bit, but that’s her personality. Her demeanor is like, “look at me, look at me, I’m still here,” you know. But she soothes to sleep, she can play in the crib now, whatever. She, you know, those sorts of things. Her sleep hygiene I think is way better than Elias’ ever was. And my kids are good sleepers. Like I kind of, I have kids who, who sleep so, but when they weren’t sleeping…

Amanda: (23:27)
Do you sleep?

Alana: (23:27)
Ahh no, Matt sleeps.

Amanda: (23:31)
Okay. This is interesting. Yeah. Like you have good sleepers. How many hours a night are you getting?

Alana: (23:41)
So it depends. I need to be in bed…if I’m in bed by 10, I’m usually up by six with Essa. I get up at six. So,

Amanda: (23:50)
That’s good sleep!

Alana: (23:52)
That is good sleep. But I’ve disrupted sleep. My Fitbit tells me like I get quality sleep. Like if a dog is crying next door, I think it’s the kids. I’m like, “what’s going on?” You know? Yeah. Turns over in bed. So I, I’m a very light sleeper.

Amanda: (24:04)
I feel like Fitbit’s are actually making us a little bit nutty about it.

Alana: (24:10)
Yes!

Amanda: (24:10)
I did a series of interviews on CVC about this, but they’re, these Fitbit’s are actually creating more, it’s called Orthosomnia where you become obsessed with the quality and quantity of your sleep, which then causes insomnia. And it, it creates anxiety, but all Fitbit’s are telling you are like when a Fitbit’s like, “You’ve been up five times last night,” that’s really normal. We should be waking or you’d be dead. That’s like the missing the missing part of that information. It’s like, here’s the data without any background about what’s normal. So if, if you go to bed at 10 and wake up at six and you feel okay, you probably are okay.

Alana: (24:57)
It’s funny because I sometimes find that if I go to bed at 11 and wake up at 5:30, like if I like lose some sleep, I tend to function better, during the day. I’m just checking my sleep from like my sleep log. Let’s see what I got going on over here, anyways. Doesn’t matter. Yeah. So sleeping is like sleeping is like a thing in my family. Oh my God, I don’t want to look at this. I want to see how sedentary my life is. Why did I open this up, Jewson?

Amanda: (25:36)
I stopped wearing my Fitbit. I feel like the more I knew the more I, I just couldn’t know. And I felt like it wasn’t giving me all the information.

Alana: (25:45)
Yes. I think that’s a, it’s interesting. I find it, it motivates me to be like, “Oh shit, I really didn’t move today.” And then other days I’m like, “Oh, I did 10,000 steps before 10:00AM” some days, you know, up and down my stairs.

Amanda: (25:55)
Totally! Day’s I’m solo parenting, I have 15,000 steps. It’s like, it is literally documented that I’m working harder. But yeah. I guess I like to keep our interviews short, like the whole length of a crap nap. Um, cause I think if you’re a new mom, sometimes you don’t have an hour. So I like to keep them between, you know, 25 to 35 minutes, but I want to you, you’re kind of on the other side, you have two kids, they’re both sleeping. What are, you know, as a mom, what do you think a new mom or a mom who’s thinking about like, “Oh, should I help my kids sleep?” Like what’s the biggest piece of advice you would have around sleep or your biggest “aha moment’ once your kids are sleeping?

Alana: (26:44)
Yeah. That there’s no, you need help, you need help and you don’t know the answers. This isn’t one of those things where I was like, “Oh, I should know the answers.” This is like, I don’t have the answers. I don’t understand this. I’m just going to outsource this to somebody else because it’s okay to create your roster of people you rely on for advice and guidance and Parenthood because, it’s one of those things, it’s like, I’ll give you an example and I’ll make it sort of quick. When you become like, when you’re in college and you’d like want tp guzzle beer and like played beer pong and drink beer all the time, you’re like, “Oh wow. I didn’t know college was going to be like a beer guzzling place.” And you’re like, “Oh, I’m going to stay up till three in the morning all the time.” And then you’re like, you get a little bit older and you’re like, “Oh, I didn’t realize I’m going to drink wine and like want to have fun brunches cause I’m going to not want to stay up all night.” You know? And then it’s like, it’s an agent stage and then you’re like, because you get married, you know, like, Oh well I thought that was going to be the biggest game changer, but it was nothing. It’s like same day as yesterday. And when you become a parent, you’re like, “what the actual fuck?” Like that’s what happened. It is a fucking Mack truck. No one can compare. It can prepare you. Even if someone is telling you you can’t hear it because you could only concentrate on what’s happening one week at a time. Today you’re a banana and tomorrow you’re a fucking acorn and then you’re a fucking watermelon or whatever it is. Like that is all you can digest. And the truth is, it’s fucking hard.

Amanda: (28:10)
Yeah.

Alana: (28:11)
And there’s no handbook, but we are trying. We are trying. We’re trying to create more knowledge and more space for people to get a better grasp of what the fuck is happening here. And the information is out there. You just want to get high quality information from people that you trust. And I think it’s also funny moms who aren’t gonna make you fucking crazy. Cause this could be a part of your life. It doesn’t need to be everything of who you are. Be who you want, be a beer guzzler, drink that Rosé, do those dinners, do whatever it is, just there are different now. Dinner is a four o’clock now or whatever, right? And then you can go to bed at 10 and be up at 6. And like these ages and stages define us. And if you don’t have sleep in your life, nothing is going to be okay. So let’s get mom…

Amanda: (28:58)
Absolutely.

Alana: (28:58)
Sleep training is putting moms actually at the center of the parenting conversation and giving you quality of life. That’s what it’s about. So that’s it. Your kid will thank you. I mean, I think I wrote a piece after I did sleep training with Jewson a few months ago. Say like, I can’t wait to see what happens to a whole society of kids who know how to sleep. Like their sleep hygiene is going to be so different than us, That like God knows what they’re going to invent.You know what kind of revolutions would be in the world because these kids have good quality of sleep. They’re not watching screens all… Well maybe some of them are. But I would say this is definitely a revolution in parenting, is understanding that there’s strategies here. And when your parents were like, “Oh, this is all mumbo jumbo”, it’s like, well fuck you. You know, this isn’t like… My parents used to like push chairs together at a restaurant and be like “Sleep!” You know, that’s how I learnt how to sleep. Right? And now we’re saying, oh no, we’re going to protect this because by protecting your kid, you’re protecting yourself a bit and then you can go on dates at seven o’clock, right? You can go for dinner. You can have sex again. You can, you know, have some routine in your life in thrive. It’s not about just survival. It’s about thriving, living your best motherfucking life, and the sooner you get the sleep sorted the better that life is going to be. So, also if you’re somebody who likes to post me, if you’re a co-sleeper, that’s great.

Amanda: (30:15)
Totally.

Alana: (30:15)
The other thing you said to me, and this is my big, it’s only a problem if it’s a problem for you. If you’re okay having your three kids in your bed, and your dog or whatever it is, great. That is not a problem for you, fine. But if it is a problem for you, there are solutions. That’s it.

Amanda: (30:29)
Yes, totally. And there are, you know, when people think, I always say this, so I’m a broken record, but when people think of sleep training, they think of like cry out, put the baby in the room, see them in the morning. It does. It’s not, that is not what speed training is these days. Like there’s a lot of gentle, thoughtful methodologies that emotionally support you and baby. So let’s get that right out of the way. But if it’s not for you and you do have a sleep situation that is working for you and everybody is sleeping, they continue doing that, by all means. Because I think what you, you know, I just want to kind of float back to your, your thought of like nobody knows what they’re doing. I think that, you know, when I think about the conversations that were had for me, you know, during pregnancy they were not about sleep. They were about feeding debates or strollers, car seats, you know, how did you….

Alana: (31:24)
How did you get your body back? Go fuck yourself bitches. You don’t need your body back, just buy new jeans!

Amanda: (31:30)
Yeah. Buy new jeans. Um, but I, I think that, um, when I talk to these moms, like we’re on our discovery calls and there’ll be like, I did all the things I wasn’t supposed to do. I’m sorry. And it’s like, but nobody knows what to do. So you did what you needed to do to survive. And it’s such, I feel like it’s such a missing piece. Like it is a medical condition not to be sleeping and to be like William Dement, who’s a leading sleep researcher. He writes “A Promise to Sleep.” And in his book he writes that sleep deprivation is the single most common brain impairment. It is a joke and not to get sleep. And so it’s a missing part of a conversation for, I was the most medical practitioners and most people dealing with women, or like pregnant women pre-baby. And so then this baby comes and they’re like, okay, like I know how to, I know how to breastfeed. I have a lactation consultant, I have like 87 accoutrements for my baby in the nursery. This thing won’t sleep. I’m, I’m suffering. And that’s when it’s like GET HELP. That is okay to ask for help and there’s a lot of judgment and shame around it and it really doesn’t have to be.

Alana: (32:47)
I think that’s part of this podcast Jewson, and what you and I actually are maybe very aligned on is like you’re giving you permission. This is your permission. I’m granting you access to not, you know, and instead of spending $1,500 on a snooger or whatever it’s called, that rocks your baby to sleep. Don’t buy the tools, learn the skills. Like just learn the fucking skills. Because once you’ve got it down, like the age and stage, just set it and forget it. It’s over. You’re onto the next parenting thing, which is like toddlerhood, threenager, adolescence, fucking puberty. And then parenting adult children, don’t get even me started, like you know?

Amanda: (33:23)
You’ll totally be like MomsTO, 50 year old version

Alana: (33:29)
2045.

Amanda: (33:33)
Like, stop eating my food.

Alana: (33:36)
Failure to launch.

Amanda: (33:38)
I totally see you doing this!

Alana: (33:38)
Yeah.

Amanda: (33:43)
Well Alana, as always you bring it.

Alana: (33:47)
Pleasure!

Amanda: (33:47)
I wanted you to tell your Elias story and I was like, ‘Oh, I hope…’ Like I don’t like to plan my conversations. I like them to happen really organically. ‘Oh, I hope we’ll have something good.’ No, you just always bring it.

Alana: (33:59)
Thanks man.

Amanda: (33:59)
You always bring all of your stuff.

(34:01)
Back at ya.

(34:03)
Okay. Well this was fun. How can people find you and follow you if they live under a rock?

(34:10)
Okay. So if you’re living anywhere in the world and you’re listening to this podcast, please give us a listen. Moms That Say Fuck is our podcast. It’s myself and Dr Dina Coolack. I’m sort of the evolving hot mess and she’s sort of the gold standard of life, which is a good juxtaposition. And I also, so I’m really an expert on building community online and in person. I really believe in this exactly what we’re talking about is like building your arsenal of weaponry to conquer motherhood. That it doesn’t need to define you. It can just make your life better. So, stick with us. You can follow us on Instagram @momsToronto. You can come to our events, across the GTA and probably launching across the country in 2020. If you want to know more about me, you can follow me @Akayfetz That’s my personal Insta. I don’t usually give that up, but why the fuck not? If you’re on Twitter, you can find us @momstorontoCEO, and we also have a LinkedIn. We love moms, we just love moms and we realise that there’s really no game changer like motherhood. There’s nothing that softens you more, hardens you more. And it really just changes your life entirely. And it doesn’t matter who you are. This is, this is a plague you cannot escape, but there’s ways to make it pretty fucking awesome. And you get to meet some pretty fucking awesome people like Amanda Jewson, et al. And I encourage you to follow us along on this journey of motherhood because no mother should be left behind in the trials and tribulations of this shit hole, but it’s really good too. It’s really good too. There’s some really beautiful moments.

Amanda: (35:52)
Its awesome!

Alana: (35:52)
But you have to sleep to enjoy them.

Amanda: (35:54)
100%.

Alana: (35:56)
Amen.

Amanda: (35:58)
Well, thank you so much Alana!