Voice Over 0:01
You’re listening to the slumber party podcast with your host Amanda Jewson, a mom of two girls, a child and infant sleep expert and general sleep lover. If you’re a tired parent who is desperate for answers, or just someone who loves sleep, this podcast was created just for you. Each episode is packed full of tips and tricks to help you maintain your sanity, as well as your social life during the early stages of parenthood. So grab your headphones, it’s time to get comfy.
Hello, everybody and welcome to another edition of the slumber party Podcast. I am your host, Amanda Jewson. I am so so friggin excited about we’re talking to Natasha Riley today who’s a licensed sex therapist in Georgia, a certified sex coach for women. She is the CEO and founder of Javeri integrative wellness services and Natasha Chantelle sex and intimacy coaching. Natasha loves helping women identify their mind body and sexual necessities your confidence and boundary building. She says I love talking to women who have come out on the other side of selflessness becoming self aware, sexually and making their pleasure a priority. When she’s not working. She’s spending time with her partner in two boys are planning her next trip out of the country. And Natasha, we need to get I’m I need to travel. I am planning I don’t know when it’s gonna happen. You’re in the States. Do you have a vaccine? I
have not gotten a vaccine. I really don’t plan on it. But I do have a trip planned. Finally, for my 35th birthday. I am so excited.
because well, things are turning around in your country anyway, in Canada, we’re a bit slower. So it’s, um, it’s Yeah, like I’m just waiting for someone to be like, guess what you can do? You can you can get out of it. Like Wait, I don’t just live in these four walls.
Yeah, um, yeah. Especially in Georgia. So Georgia COVID may not have for real hit us if you like look at Oh, Reno it I mean, it did. But the way people move, you have to think that it didn’t. So we’ve been maybe like, when the first two weeks may I say maybe the first month were shut down, but we’ve been open ever since then.
Okay, but you know, this actually makes me feel a little bit better. Like unless crazy because I I so my favorite Real Housewives franchise is Atlanta. And I know just listen, every episode, it comes out. And someone’s like, okay, that’s that’s your, but my, I see my housewives going out and like doing things in Atlanta. And I’m like, What’s going on there? But it’s just that people are just doing their thing? Very much. So
very much. So. Yes.
Okay. Like I saw, I was on Instagram. And I saw a few of them. They’re all together at this club. And I was like, Oh my god, I haven’t eaten inside. In a year. We’re doing it all, like a little bit jealous. We’re doing it
Unknown Speaker 3:33
at all. You’re just
living your life like that, that I feel is like such an like, not in No, like, Americans are always like, so like risk takers. And like, you know, just Whoo, let’s do it. And Canadians are like, I’m afraid.
Yes, I would agree. We are risk takers. I’ve spent a lot of time I’m very selective where I go and what I do, but other people, like let’s do it.
And I feel like with COVID we’re all discovering everyone’s like risk tolerance, you know what I mean? So like, I feel like I’m so safe. But I’ve been out. I get my hair done in a place where there’s just me and the person doing my hair. And so I feel very safe. I have like an ni or can 95 on and another mask. And then to someone else. It’s like I am a rebel. It’s like, I cannot believe you did that. I’m like, okay, But enough about COVID because that’s enough to kill anyone sex drive. I want to talk about what you do and what you see. And although nobody says this to me directly, I mean, I’m sure it’s happened. But a lot of my clients will call me when they haven’t spent a night in the same room as their partner in Yours or it might be months. And they might say something like, we want another baby. But we don’t know how that’s actually going to happen. Because we know what is involved in making a baby. We get there very much. So tell me what you do.
So I do a lot of the things. So as a sex therapist, I work with couples, and I work with women. As a coach, I mainly work with women, some couples here and there. So basically, it’s it can be like any topic, normally what gets people in the door is the sex issue. But what you’ll find is, that’s not the main issue. That is the issue that just set things in motion for you to finally get help. But all the other stuff that you brushed under the rug, we got to address that first. So a lot of times it takes a while, unless they’re just really, really communicating. And they’ve got things together. And the issue really is just the sex space. Other than that, it’s literally months before we actually get to talking about the sex when it comes to my couples. Oh, wow.
Unknown Speaker 6:25
I love that. And I that does that would track for me that because it’s so much more about drive? Well, what’s what’s creating that driver? Yes,
right. Yeah, yeah. And they don’t think about it, because we’ve spent years brushing this stuff under the rug. And now we’re not intimate or now we can’t focus or it’s just it’s another role or a chore. Because it’s all bad stuff. Like you have to deal with this stuff.
You have to deal with this stuff. It’s just like I spoke to like a food coach. She She’s like a PhD that works in, like change management. And her thing is like, it’s never about the food. It’s all this Oh, yeah. It’s not about like, it’s like not about sex. It’s like, what else is going on there? And I would imagine, too, especially. You know, I remember, even like, before the baby came for my husband and I, Brad was sleeping in another room because I was sleeping so lightly. So his breathing, I get out. It’s so it’s so crazy. I made him go and get a sleep study done. Because I was like, No, your snoring has never been this bad or out of control. And he was like, I think you’re sleeping lighter. I don’t feel tired during the day, I will go and get a sleep study for you if you really think this is an issue. So he goes and sleeps in like a you know, whatever. lab with wires all over, all over his body. And just I didn’t realize how invasive it was. I really thought it was like this is before I became a sleep expert. But I was like, Oh yeah, they just kind of watch you. No, no, no, they like put stuff up your nose to monitor your oxygen levels. So he goes and does that. And he comes home. And then he gets his results like two months later. And he’s like, Yeah, I don’t have a breathing issue.
Unknown Speaker 8:27
I’m sure I’m fine.
And then so like it starts with that, right? And then you had the baby and the baby is in your bed. And I really felt this for a while where it felt like so weird to be sharing my body. Yes. Like, I was like, especially when you’re breastfeeding. Yeah. Or like,
Unknown Speaker 8:51
belongs Yeah. And then your husband’s like, Hey, I’m like,
oh god, how are you? Right? I am the the sanctuary that is nurturing. You cannot come over here.
I am Virgin Mary,
right? Like how? Yeah.
So are you finding that a lot with your postpartum clients
very much so that it’s always trying to find a balance of understanding what you provide for your baby. And also understanding that your partner has not disappeared. And I find that seems to be the switch. Like Yes, you’ve had this baby, and now you’re in mommy mode. But you still have to choose your partner to, you know, with without your partner. This wouldn’t have been possible. And though they don’t like to say it, it hurts their feelings.
Yeah, especially. I find like in heterosexual couples. It’s how men are communicating their feelings in a lot of way. It’s their I don’t want to say so. Our only love language, but like, I think my partner needs more physical connection than I do. And when it’s not happening, it’s it. There’s like tension.
But we don’t pay attention to the tension it would be. We think it’s something else
and what or I was just gonna say that, like, we can tell, like when, you know, we haven’t been into will say like, we should probably like figure Yeah, like because it creates, it creates tension it creates, you know, we’ll just be like, and then we’ll have to be like, Okay, why are we like this? What is happening? And we’re, we’re actually, I mean, I actually, I didn’t think I would be discussing my sex life on this as much as I am right now. I’m sure my husband is okay with it. But one of the things is because my husband travels so much. I think that we’re, we actually were okay. And I think it’s because we have a little space for me. And then we miss each other. And then it’s like, Okay, so we’re, I am, I’m not saying this just to be like, we’re great. No questions about me. But I’ve always been curious if that’s like something that you recommend, like, take take some space? Like, Does that help? Does absence make the heart grow fonder? In that way,
can I do always recommend that you do things that make you happy, continue to be an individual. And I definitely say that to my moms, because we have a habit. And I say we because I did it to, of living for our children and stepping into the role of I am mom, only mom, and I don’t have a first name. And so that is all I am. And that is all I can be right now. So I don’t know who I am. when I’m not around my child. Yeah. So I always, always, always recommend and encourage for each individual to go out and learn themselves, do their hobbies, hang out with their friends, and cultivate individuality, then you’re able to come together and still be able to build intimacy and connection in your relationship. Because now you have more to talk about, and you can express who you are, as this new person. Because you are different when you have a child, or when you have any big little transition that changes who you are. And so I always say continue to get to know each other. Because you don’t know who this person is anymore. So continue to be curious.
Yeah, and I and I feel like part of it is for this book club that I was a part of, we had to read Esther, pearls meeting in captivity. And she discusses the idea of like, your partner being another, which is like so attractive. It’s like, we’re attracted to people outside of our relationships, because we don’t know anything about them. Right? And they seem like we’ve created like a narrative about them. It’s like, oh, and then they like, oh, and then you get to know them. And you’re like, like, so then I I’m, I always thought like, oh, maybe we’ve we’ve managed to keep a little bit of spark because my husband can be away for like, two weeks at a time. So I’m like, Oh, hey, I don’t really know, right? Let’s take this first week to, you know, get to know you. And I think that that can, it goes straight to your point that like, you know, your partner probably finds you more attractive when you are like your whole self and your whole because we do exist outside of our children. And I mean, that’s, that’s part of what I do in my, my work a lot as well is that people. And again, it’s a choice. Like, if you want to continue helping your children to sleep, then there’s no judgement. And that can be very, like you can have sex anywhere that isn’t your bed, right? There’s many different locations. So having a family bed doesn’t have to stop you from doing that. However, it does for a lot of my clients, when they call me when they are like, like, I haven’t shared a bed, we aren’t intimate because of that. In in when you were saying it’s, it’s not really about that it’s about the stuff. What is some of this stuff that you’re seeing your clients come to you.
A lot of it can be resentment from small things, little things. How you act towards me, something in the past that just has not been like go other individuals being in their ear and telling them what things should look like or Oh, why is that happening? Or oh why is this happening? And It can be just an array of things that has been going on that it’s easier to just not address it, because then we have to go through confrontation, and no one really likes confrontation. But it seems it seeps into everything when you don’t address the little nuances going on in your relationship, because the little things add up, the big things add up, and then all it takes is one crazy, you sniff the wrong way. And now I’m going off. I’m losing my mind. But it has nothing to do with the sniff you sniff all the time, what it has to do is all the other stuff that I’ve just let be. And so now when I look at you, all I feel is anger, and irritation and frustration. And the last thing I want to do is have sex with you when when I look at you, that is all that I feel, you know, you don’t get up in the middle of the night to help with the baby. I’m breastfeeding all the time. And I don’t know how to articulate that. I don’t really want to do this, you know, I don’t want to be attached like this, because you don’t want to say that because then you feel like a bad mom, because you’re nurturing your child. So you don’t know how to articulate to that to your partner. Because they don’t understand because they’re not doing it. You know, and then there’s that your cell free. I’m here. We’re breastfeeding, we’re sleeping. We’re doing all this and you just come and go as you please. There’s that jealousy as well. If you’re solely breastfeeding and not bottle feeding, you’re the one that has to get up at night. So your partner’s sleep while you’re getting up every couple hours. Yes, these this new baby, or even toddlers trying to put them in their bed this
unbelief. And men have this unbelievable ability to just not hear the bayberry much sleep through
very much. So
it used to be like, Oh, I think you’re really deep sleeper. And now in this work, it’s like no, I think it’s all men. I and I wonder what evolutionary reason for that is it must be that men needed to sleep like there needed to be one provider who is not bleary eyed in the morning? I don’t know, or that. I can’t figure out why men can hear it. It’s unbelievable.
I wouldn’t be interested to know, I haven’t really had the pleasure of interacting with like a same sex couple with a new baby. But I was very interested to know what the sleep dynamic is. In the middle of the night and to getting up. I I would say that two females, they probably both get up and help each other. I could be wrong. I would, I would feel that that would be what it is because they both have that nurturing.
Unknown Speaker 18:10
But I don’t know.
I wonder Yeah. Or even like to me, like I’ve worked with quite a few same sex couples. But you know, two men, two women, it hasn’t come up. But now I’m dying to know like, what would it be like, for two men? Or? Or does it? Do you just take on those roles naturally, right? Maybe it was like the person who birth the child, it might just have really heightened awareness of the other doesn’t. So men get a little more shit when it’s more to do with like, your body hormone. Right,
Yeah, I’m interested, I want to I want to learn about that. Because, you know, the same sex fathers that I deal with are super attentive and nurturing and are doing all the things. And we actually I know that we have resources. I know, I just saw it in passing, but that men can produce the same sort of like, bonding hormones that a woman would if in a same sex couple, but this Yeah, this raises a lot of questions. And it might not be a heterosexual thing. It could be like, though, I call it like the primary parent. Yeah, so I just did a segment on on TV about like sleep as a feminist issue for International Women’s Day. And that, you know, it’s it’s not necessarily about mothers, but you know, feminism is talking about equality. If the majority of the people who take on the primary caregiving role are women. You know, regardless if your partner is is also a woman, I think that there is now Really some sort of resentment that would happen. Like when you talked about the like the freedom. I told, like, especially my husband, he was traveling in addition to being free. He’s like in mining traveling first class. And I’m like, Yeah, he’s like sipping a martini and allowing Jim like, tell me more about traveling.
Yeah, yeah. And because we feel that that is our responsibility. We don’t, we don’t share. We don’t share what we feel. Or if we do share, it’s really passive aggressively. It’s not we’re not just coming out and saying, We’re like, Oh, are you sure slept good last night, didn’t you?
You You’re very well, because it’s also It feels like, you can’t do anything about it. Right? So it’s like, well, what are we supposed to do about it? I’m the one who’s breastfeeding. We are at an impasse. And then so I guess that’s my, my question for you. So I am that couple. I am up all night. I have an eight month old, I’m ready to think about maybe possibly sharing that bed again, with with my partner. I feel very annoyed with them, because I’m up all night. What are some things that I can do to kind of lessen that resentment or look at this differently? Well, the
first thing is understanding that you do have that choice, like everything you do, you have a choice and also that you are not alone. And when you bring your partner into the responsibility, and actually say what you need to take that load off of you, it builds that connection, it builds that intimacy, instead of trying to do everything alone, you know, shoulder, some, allow them to shoulder some of that, get your rest, tell them what you need. And then have the energy to even want to do a date night, or you know, to have that a lot of time for both of you to spend together. Allow them to help you get your energy back.
Yes, I love that. And I think that’s it’s not exactly the same, but I’m getting the thought like feel the fear, do it anyway, where it’s like, I remember it eight months being like, we need to go on a date. Because we like going on dates. I don’t really want to leave this baby. But I think it makes sense to so we’re really wet. And so remember, this is a babysitter who stayed with our family for like four years is a wonderful human. And I was like I grilled her and that interview. I wouldn’t give her the job until she gave me two references. I was like, so insane. But when me and I did feel good about leaving my child with her. But it was important that we did it and then it was really great. When we did do it, we had a great time. It did cut some of the tension. It reminds you that you’re your own person and an adult’s.
Yep, very much so and that you can dress up and really look nice.
Yes, I know, while I’m even trying to get it like in COVID times I have to be like Amanda, you do not have to wear sweatpants, right? I’ve actually made myself get dressed every day, this
last two weeks it’s made a difference is that it’s because it just makes you show up differently. It makes you want to be at not out and about, but it makes you want to be seen. And you’re like, Oh, I remember her. I remember watching him and your partner likes it too, though, you know, we we assume because we’re in the situation that they’re like, oh, what’s fine, or we’ve been together for years? Oh, it’s fine. But they like they like to see you putting in the effort sometimes. That that reminds them of what it is like from the beginning not saying go to the beginning and how it was when you were first dating, but it’s like, wow, you know, this is this is what I’ve been looking for. Like I like seeing this every every once in a while.
Yeah, yeah. Because we’re in there somewhere. We’re in there. And just there’s there’s something that you can’t do. Well, I’m just even thinking like, it’s hard for any Canadians. I mean, we’re in. I’m in Ontario and we’re, like parts of Ontario are locked down but it’s a pretty shitty lockdown. Like being honest. Like when people talk about like lockdown, like lockdown is what happened in New Zealand. lockdown is what happened in Australia. locked down here is like, God, it’s like, don’t go out of your house button, get your hair done, and you’re like what? And then they’ll be like, did you get your hair done? Nearly But he said he could. It’s like, it’s like, I don’t know what anyway. But it is, it can be hard to go out on dates, especially if you’re trying to be COVID. safe. This is where I think like, You’re, you’re right, talking about the choice, right? Like, sleep training is not for everyone I understand. But you might want to find ways to have even that two hours in the evening to have like a movie night or like rent a movie, and put away your phones. And there are still ways that you can connect in COVID with your partner, and it’s so easy not to maybe you take your movie watching to a different part of your house, or like you make it special in some way. But you have to, it really doesn’t just happen. And I think a lot of couples think that it were like, Oh, we have this connection, it’ll come back. But you really do have to work at it and make it a priority. Yeah, you.
You are 100%. Right, Amanda, what are some of the things I always hear one of those statements is, it shouldn’t be this hard. It shouldn’t be this much work. But it is. But it is relationship even outside of romantic relationship relationships take work, you’re two different people. And what you like yesterday, or what your partner like yesterday, doesn’t mean that’s what they like today. So you have to put in the work to want to care enough to ask What do you like today?
Yeah, Oh, I like that. What do you like today? Who
are you? Are you today, you know, circumstance could have happened, something could have happened to where you’re a different person today. And it goes back to being curious and genuinely wanting to know who your partner is. And having that connection. Yeah, intimacy. intimacy is far far, far beyond just sex. And when you can build the intimacy and the connection, it makes it that much easier to have a physical relationship and be open and vulnerable in those moments to connect that deep.
And I find a lot of partners who aren’t the primary parent really want to be involved. But the primary parent is like, we’ve got a good thing going, I love you, but I’ll take over. Like, it’s, it’s not that I think that you’re incompetent. It’s more that I’m doing Oh, you’re doing it wrong. You’re doing it wrong. Put it Forget it, I’ll just do it. I’ll just do it. And then if that were, I mean, to be fair, that’s my husband and me. That’s why I don’t cook. So there you go. It’s yours. Now I don’t even bother
everybody can only imagine, right? Like, this is my favorite story to tell about me and my partner. So when I was working in the corporate, I wouldn’t get home till maybe seven o’clock. So I’m the mom, you need the meat, you need the car, you need the vegetables. And so I gave him the responsibility of feeding the kids. And for the first month, we fought to the nail because he would get them pizza. And I was like, You can’t please them pizza, they need this. They need that, like, what are you doing about this? Where’s the vegetable? And after a while somebody said Natasha, what they ate. And so after a while I would pay attention, I would get home and I’m like, What did you guys eat pizza, everyone’s happy. The only person who is frustrated about the vegetable is me. And so after a while, I had to literally tell myself what they ate, what they ate, I’ll have to come in later on my day and add the vegetables and add all of that on my day. But if I’m asking him literally, can you just feed them? What I asked was done, they’re alive, they’re happy. And I think even me a work in progress. That’s what we have to understand. Our way is not is not going to be everybody else’s way. Amen. And just appreciate what they are doing for you. Like see the action that they’re doing and how it benefits you and show that gratitude. Don’t Don’t be afraid to say, Oh, I see you doing this or Oh, I appreciate this. Or you know, I just want to hug you for this today. Because then that increases that intimacy because it’s like, oh, you see me? You see you see what I did? And it’s very hard. I will say for myself and I’m guessing many of you probably agree, but it’s really hard to do all the things and pay attention to what your you’re doing so that you can get the praise from me, because I doing so much. So if you vacuum the floor every day. I’m sorry, I’m not gonna notice. I’m just gonna walk in and walk out unless I see you doing it. Yes, things like that. I’m not going to notice and I know sometimes my partner like you didn’t even notice that I did this with the floor. I did that and I’m just like, No, I didn’t. I didn’t notice that. I didn’t It’s just not on the right.
Yeah, and totally. And I think I think that happens a lot with, you know, these new moms sitting at home doing like this really hard day. And you know, sometimes dad will come home or a primary partner and be like, what, what today wants to be like, Oh, yeah, I’m just I’m projecting but we are getting. We’re getting to the point, Natasha, I like to keep this podcast to the length of a crap nap. So we’re getting into 30 minutes right now. And that’s not a bad nap. So Natasha, where can people find you? If they’re connecting with you? And are like, please help me for the love of God.
Yes. So you can email me at in firstname.lastname@example.org. Or you can follow me on Facebook. My page is Natasha Chantelle Sex and intimacy coaching. Perfect.
That’s awesome. And I’m gonna put all of this in the show notes as well, so you can really easily find Natasha. This was such a pleasure. I feel like I wish we could probably talk about this for hours like there’s so many layers. But I really think this is maybe like a good little sampling size. And as always, if sleep is a part of your intimacy plan, give us a call. You can find us at babies Best Lead, calm instagram.com slash babies best sleep. If you do need to book a discovery call with myself or a member of our team. You can do so at babies best sleep.com Have a good one.