Voice Over 0:01
You’re listening to the slumber party podcast with your host Amanda Jewson, a mom of two girls, a child and infant sleep expert and general sleep lover. If you’re a tired parent who is desperate for answers, or just someone who loves sleep, this podcast was created just for you. Each episode is packed full of tips and tricks to help you maintain your sanity, as well as your social life during the early stages of parenthood. So grab your headphones, it’s time to get comfy.
Hi, everybody, welcome to the slumber party podcast it is Amanda Jewson, your infant in baby and child sleep consultant. Today we are speaking with Meg, who is a former client of mine. And I’m I’m so excited to talk with Meg today because Meg was one of those discovery calls where I was like, Oh, I don’t think I don’t think she’ll hire me. I don’t think she wants to do it.
I did. I did. There’s a, and we’re going to talk about this. And yeah, but I feel like you sometimes when people are really, really, really kind of freaking out about the crying and they ask a lot of questions about a crying. And by the way, you should if you’re on a discovery call, ask as many questions you want. But sometimes it just means that they’re not ready. And that’s okay. They might be ready one day. But the crying part is it’s the worst part. And I think that it is really hard. It’s kind of like childbirth. This is what I say all the time that sleep training is like childbirth. It I mean, I shouldn’t say is, I found childbirth, so much worse than any sleep work I’ve ever done personally. But it will I mean, it’s the same equivalency in that you don’t know how you’ll feel about it until you actually do it. So you’re going to have people who like talk about birth, like, I just did this and the baby came out and the the birds came and they sang at me right after. And then you’re gonna have people with a very different strain than that. And they will tell you while you’re pregnant, by the way, they don’t. They’re like, Hey, good luck. It’s coming out. And it’s gonna be hard. Like, you’re like, Okay,
Unknown Speaker 2:32
great. Thanks for the encouragement.
And I think sleep training is so similar in that people will say it was so easy, or it was the worst. And when it comes down to it, it really is about how you feel about it. So I think it’s like, it’s hard sometimes to get passed out when you’re already so freaked out about the crying and you don’t really want to do it. And I get that. Like, I think that there’s a lot of things. I don’t do it like I’m trying to like, I like I hate needles at all. So every time I have to go get a flu shot, I’m like, Okay, here we go. We’re gonna do it. Like, you know, maybe it’s like that. But yeah, I guess the reason why I wanted to have Megan is because Mike represents so many of my clients who were like, Oh, shit, that wasn’t that bad. I didn’t think this is horrible. My child doesn’t traumatize. And I feel like many of you need this episode. From what I hear. You know, the questions that are in my email box are, hey, I’ve heard so many great things about you two questions, how much you cost? And second question is, do you use cried out? And I mean, I’ve talked about crying a lot on this podcast and on my Instagram, but it really depends on what you think, cried out. So make, I would love to know what you thought cried out meant, like when you thought Alright, we’re gonna sleep train this baby. It’s going to look like this.
I didn’t think there were going to be as many checks. I thought I had a friend who sleep trained, which I think technically it’s Ferber method where you literally put them in. And that’s it. You walk away. You get them in the morning.
Actually, I I only know this because I’ve studied this. Ferber has such a bad rap. Is I feel so bad for this guy. So Ferber actually created the methodology where you like give baby like, time interval check. So it’s like five minutes and 10 minutes and 15 that but when people it’s not you? I remember my my boss when I was teaching This is like before as a sleep consultant, I went back to work really early for Canadian standards here. So I went back to work and everyone’s like, Oh my god, how are you working? How are you working? And I was like, Oh, my baby sleeps, sleeps. And I remember my boss being like, and my baby sleeps too, at a Ferb riser. And it sounded like this horrible thing that you do to your child like Ferb rise. And I was like, Oh, so Forever, ever. Like he’s got the worst reputation. But it’s actually the I think the only difference between some of the Ferber stuff and I is that I have similarly time checks, and that are based more on how baby’s doing rather than like a time on the timer. But yeah, for how I feel if, yeah, look up his stuff. And then like, feel bad for him. He needs a better publicist.
Unknown Speaker 5:51
Will and our pediatrician. So that was the impetus. I don’t know if I ever told you this. But we went in for our nine month like, Well, whatever check now. Yes, just well, baby visit, and they kindly asked if she was sleeping in her bed. And if she was sleeping through the night, and the answer to both of those were no, she was in our bed, and she was waking up at least twice, if not upwards of five times a night. And they said consolidated sleep, for her developmentally is more important than getting food throughout the night. She’s on a beautiful growth chart, she does not need sustenance in the evening to maintain it. But what she does mean from a developmental perspective is consolidated sleep. So you need to get her out of and her own bed and she needs to be sleeping through the night. She doesn’t wanna be waking up. So yeah, at that point from, she’s my first baby, she cries, she wakes me up crying, she’s eating a significant amount at night. So I was so beholden to this idea that my doctor was telling me to starve my baby, and blah, blah, blah, whatever. I have very crunchy friends. And then friends who were like, I started out in the crib in a different room from the beginning. So I had this wide range of experiencial data from friends. And I just felt so lost. But then my doctor is telling me, you’re doing something that’s not good for her. So then I was like, Well, shit.
Unknown Speaker 7:17
I don’t know how
there is there’s so a Canadian study. I think it was like two years ago from McGill. I think it is. talked about how babies don’t really need to be sleeping through the night for the first year, which I heard I tend to account Well, this is this is Yeah, like I think your baby are probably like, I bet your child was fine. Because you were going in several times to sustain helping them back. They’re probably getting more sleep than you think. And I hate pressuring people into Okay, well, your baby has to win, what’s his baby stone and developmentally, they’re fine. We do start to see some stuff as they get older in terms of the data of their sir to be behavior issues, especially when we get to school age children who weren’t sleeping and having consolidated sleep, we start to see lots of behavior stuff, some of which mimics ADHD. So parents want to, you know, maybe look at their sleep first before checking out ADHD stuff. But yeah, a lot of pediatricians out. So on the, like, I, it’s hard for me to I’m not saying I disagree with your pediatrician. But I wonder I have questions about pediatrician to make parents feel guilty and be like, you’re doing something wrong, I don’t know that you’re doing something wrong, your baby’s gonna be okay. And fine. You may want to start thinking about it. But then the other real part for me is I always say like, I love your babies, but I don’t do this for them. I do it for the family. I do it for you. And it’s like your point, in this McGill study, they actually, according to them that parents did not report increased postpartum anxiety or depression as a result of increased name rankings. And I was like, Who are they talking to? I don’t know who they’re talking to. So but you know, that science so hopefully someone else has come up with something else and whatever, it that’s the wonderful thing about science, it can always be challenged.
Unknown Speaker 9:29
so you are in this spot where you’re like, Okay, now we have to do something. We get on our call. I don’t think you’re actually going to hire me. You do. Yay. That’s great. And then I would love for you to describe your experience. Like was it as bad as you thought it was going to be?
Unknown Speaker 9:55
Unknown Speaker 9:56
the short answer. The longer answer is
Unknown Speaker 10:00
Unknown Speaker 10:00
I don’t know why I assumed this because in what I do, I have like a very defined process for how I work. But I was so comforted, I guess by like, you have this intake thing. And part of our problem was daytime scheduling, which I had no idea connected to nighttime stuff. So for me, the sleep training began during the day, and we were already doing okay, we just needed to switch up when we were feeding her. So our intro was gentle. Like, the first couple days, we just switched our routine up, and she did great.
The sugar so great, like time, blah.
Unknown Speaker 10:41
whole time, she did great. I will say that first night was emotional for me, because we never let her cry for an extended period of time ever. In 10, she was about 10 months when we started. So I cried the first night, twice. So I know. But it wasn’t from like thinking I was hurting her or thinking I was like, being a bad parent or anything like that. I think it was just, we talked about this on our intro call, which like really helped me like it is a biological and normal response to respond when your child is in distress. That’s not something I was doing wrong, or it was abnormal. So I think for me, it was more like, this is normal. This is okay. It’s just behavior I haven’t we haven’t done before.
And there is an attachment. I think like parents and moms especially don’t really give themselves a break about if you are co sleeping, there is something in it for you. It’s not like you’re I mean, there are some parents that are like great Get out of my bed. But it is my gut feeling like I co slept with my first daughter for a little bit because it was the only way it could happen. I actively worked on getting her out of my bed as soon as humanly possible. If you are waiting until the 10 months, there’s probably some emotional connection into why we’re doing that. So don’t just be like, get over it. It’s fine. Your baby’s fine. It’s like not really honoring your part in that. And it would be really normal and expected for you to feel a little bit of like sadness and separation as well.
Unknown Speaker 12:23
Yeah, absolutely. And it was very, you also your spreadsheet that you shared where we’re like tracking every single thing. I didn’t feel like it was a passive experience. Like we were constantly talk and I’m very I’m a creative, but I’m very type A like I love a list I love tell me what to do, how to do it, when to do it. And I’ll happily just do that thing. So yeah, I didn’t, I felt very empowered the whole time, even though it wasn’t consistently going in. And it was consistently going in every however many minutes, but I was tracking. We were on WhatsApp. I was sending you audio clips, we were talking back and forth gauging the level of the cry. Yeah, hearing her calm down on her own. Yeah. But so I really very like engaged process. And maybe I thought my perception of it was just that it was gonna be kind of cold and disconnected that I like I was gonna have to put her in there and then not engage in a way that felt like what I had been doing so far. And it was very active. It just wasn’t it was creating space for her to learn this thing on her own.
It Well, it’s funny that you say that I was. I was on a podcast last week with this amazing tik tok creator. her. Her Tick Tock name is the mom room. She’s really funny. She makes amazing funny mom tic tocs you should follow her. Her name is Renee in real life. But we were talking about she was talking about a crib to bed transition. And just like, Oh, we just got on the topic of the idea that, that we can’t be normal parents and sleep train. Meaning that like people will ask me all the time, like, Can I touch them? Can I talk to them? Can I look at them in the eye. And it’s just like some things that have been perpetuated. It’s like all we’re doing is not helping that baby to sleep. We can say it’s okay, I love you. Here’s a kiss and hug, I can pat your back, I can pick you up. I can give you a big old hug. And then you have to go right back down because I’m just the only thing I’m not doing. I’m parenting. I’m doing all these things and just not helping you to sleep. But somehow it’s been misconstrued and in like so like, polarized into these like you’re either laying on top of your kid or you’re giving them the finger from your bed. And like it’s just like one or the other and it doesn’t have to be like that. Like we can just be regular people. Like all of these articles. I’ve talked about this so much on this podcast, all of them articles that come out about nighttime parenting, why I choose to nighttime parent. Nothing makes my blood boil more than that, to assume that like your sleep training and like your child’s is like help, something’s wrong and you’re just like, it’s midnight. Sorry. I’m in Jada chance Good luck. Like it’s so wild. Last night, my daughter came into my room at one o’clock in the morning to be like, the fans on it sounds like it’s gonna come off. And I don’t know how to turn it off. I’m like, click. I didn’t just say good luck. Yeah, I hope it’s nighttime. I don’t parent. It’s like so wild to so assaulting.
Unknown Speaker 15:44
I will say to I’ve learned since sleep training show like I’ve every once in a while, she’s a very noisy sleeper, which is a good thing for me to know. So she’ll make like a cry. A single like went straight up textbook where noise sometimes she like wakes up and rolls over. And I now before I was like, if she’s crying, every cry is a distress cry to me. And now there’s a lot of nuance of like, she got a stomach bug a couple weeks ago and wake up and then woke up in the middle of the night and threw up in her bed. First, remember, it was awful. But the cry that she did wasn’t I’m rolling over. I’m waiting, I’m making noise at night, it was like something is wrong. So I almost feel like the she has gotten more complex, and your ability to communicate and tell me what’s going on. Because she has room to kind of explore all of the different things that can happen at night. And many of which don’t need my attention. Don’t need me to come in there and say you rolled over, it’s okay. Like, yeah, roll over and figure out that’s good.
The other thing too, is like, I think what people forget is that the crying stop. So this is not something that goes on and on and on and on. So it might be like a night or three Max and then the crying stops. And then so if your child suddenly is crying out of nowhere for no reason, then you need to go to them. From there, you can assess what’s happening and make your decision whether or not you want to give them more time before you go back in again. But generally, it’s for a good reason after that. And you have to remember, like I think even before sleep training, it’s also a good reason. If you’re actively helping your child go back to sleep, and they wake up and they’re like, I don’t know how to do this. That is a good reason. So they’re like help. Good luck. Figure it out. But then when they do figure it out, they’re like, I don’t need to cry anymore. I got this. I know what to do. Okay, so, like you’ve I mean, you’ve done sleep training. You are a convert. You have a nother thing. Can I share this? Yeah. You just like
Unknown Speaker 18:01
there’s a thing inside of me. Yeah, baby.
Do you know the gender? Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 18:06
We did all of this stuff last week to find out so like any day well, no, yeah, that’s exciting. I know.
I think it’s a boy that’s you think it’s a boy. I thought both of my girls were boys. I was convinced. And and like the last so for my first I remember being like, you know people say that you’re only telling me what you’re not seeing. And you know, I if you don’t like what if they the baby comes out and it’s a boy and all these people have bought me pink things like this is like before, first of all, my brain has totally changed. Gender is a construct. I don’t carry put my baby boy and things stuff. I and vice versa. I feel very differently. But this is like, you know, 10 years ago, Amanda. Anyway, so then the technician just takes the ultrasound thing and she goes see that as like Yeah, she goes labeija that’s a Lamia I was like, Okay, well, I’m convinced it’s
Unknown Speaker 19:09
THANK YOU FOR THE END depth. Look at that. Yeah,
we had it. It was so so tell me what some of your thoughts are with baby with baby to hear. Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 19:22
so the first I was 1,000% sure. I did not want a second kid. And I think so much of it is was that I did not feel like myself for the first 10 months of my daughter same as be her life. I have anxiety and depression pre pregnancy pre pandemic prepared could that I think was exacerbated by the lack of sleep and also be was born six weeks pre quarantine. So her whole life has been in this weird pandemic state and we’re in the States. So Like locked down for the last year. So I was sure I didn’t want to do it again, because I did not understand. I could not conceptualize how people took care of more than one baby at night. Yeah, I just did. I couldn’t figure out how that would work like with my husband and I never see each other sleep in the same bed again for the next five years. What I never sleep if I was dealing with one that was up at 135 and the other that was up at two for whatever. So my perspective shift perspective shifted when he started sleeping and being like,
Unknown Speaker 20:37
Unknown Speaker 20:40
I’m sleeping. I like my appetite came back. I yeah, like, colors looked bright. Again, food tasted good, like, part of me is exaggerating a little, but part of me is like, I was really in survival mode. Yeah, I didn’t sleep for 10 months. So I remember one of your intake questions like what’s like a good night? And what’s the word like a bad night? And I copied times from our baby monitor. And it was like seven wake ups was a bad night. Yeah. And yeah, you have seven times a night you’re not getting any deep sleep. So I just wasn’t getting restful sleep for a long time.
So he truly thinks something is wrong at that point. Like there’s a big threat. Let’s shut it down. I don’t want any babies. Why would it have babies or threats everywhere. We’re up all night.
Unknown Speaker 21:31
And I was breastfeeding through it all. And I’ve had which is a gift but also something to deal with a huge oversupply. So in between her I’m like pumping throughout the night or throughout the day. And I just my body was like running on nothing. So the idea to me that I could take care of another baby. It didn’t seem feasible to me like it just it logistically, I could not understand how that would work. So yeah, once we started sleeping, and we started sleeping, I went to bed at like 8pm for a month. Straight up just like slept 12 hour nights for like a month. I was having like crazy postpartum hair loss. And I swear by part of this is pregnancy, but it happened before. Like my hair stopped falling out. Like my body was just like, something bad happened. Yeah, yeah. That shifted everything. Like I said aloud to everyone that knew me. I said this to you on her like alcohol. You were like, maybe like a second. I was like, shut up. No, never.
Because I just said, Hold on, hold on. I just want to make sure I’m positive. I didn’t say that. Because every I, I think I was like, Oh, well, I guess I hope to talk to you again. And like, I was like, it may be be tonight because I never want to pressure anyone. But I think it sort of came out. And then I’m like, Oh, I regret that. Because some people were like, it was really hard to have this child and don’t know that we’re having so I’m
Unknown Speaker 23:02
so conscious. I didn’t feel that at all, because I’m an only child. So I feel no, like, I’m like, it’s just me, and I am fantastic. So if we have an only that’s great. Yeah, but my husband always put He’s like, if we have one, I want to I want it to have siblings. So and then we had kind of a traumatic delivery. And in the hospital. He was like, hey, if you don’t want to do that, again.
Unknown Speaker 23:32
It was a long, 33 hours and then kind of a emergency section. Lots of stuff. But
Unknown Speaker 23:40
all of that to say sleep really opened my mind to the idea of having a second baby sleeps through the night every night. Until she threw up on herself everywhere we call style. And that’s the first time she’s had a significant night wake up and we did this in October. It’s March. Yeah. So I think my biggest fears are or not fears, just anxieties maybe is a better word. This baby was big at birth nine, four, so and didn’t have any problems eating and her growth chart is like, like, developmentally hits everything does everything great. So what if this baby’s tiny or what if there are things that make it like from day one we could have they told me like two weeks be gained. She was like over 10 pounds at her first checkout.
Unknown Speaker 24:34
Yeah, like she was huge. She did not need she didn’t really need to be eating at night from the get go. Yeah. So part of me is like if we have another big baby, right? I will put it in a crib on the first night and not mess with this. So I don’t want to like swing too far the other way. But I also feel awkward to not like now sometimes we will wake up she’s She used
Unknown Speaker 25:00
to wake up and cry to let us know she was up. And now she goes, Mama, Mama, Daddy, Daddy, that D until one of us, which is very cute.
Unknown Speaker 25:10
But she just yells, and then we get a bottle and a waffle ready is her morning routine. And I just leave her in there for a second so that I can do what I need to do in the kitchen. Yeah, whatever. So I feel very empowered to know like, it’s fine. Like earlier, you were like, give yourself a break. It’s okay to leave her in there for a second while you do your thing, or whatever. So I just feel this weird tension of like, do I sleep train from day one and say like, You’re good. You’re fine. I’m going back. Yeah. Or do we? Do I fall into this trap of like, we aren’t having any more Ben is getting snippy snipped after this. So this is my last baby. So do I fall into that trap of like, well, this is the last time a baby will wake me up at night. I don’t think I will. But I just feel all this tension of like, I know the other side. I know it’s possible. I know, my child is capable of sleep. I know this next one will be too. But like, now, we’re also operating on what it be has a bad night. Right. And so I don’t know, I have a lot of I don’t know if that answered any question. But there’s a lot of leeway
Unknown Speaker 26:15
No, I think that’s really, I think it’s really helpful. And so I think that you don’t have to do, you don’t have to be hardcore and like, like, I shouldn’t say hardcore you, if you don’t want her to sleep in her own room right away, you don’t have to I room shared with both of my girls for a little bit. They just were really loud sleepers. And I couldn’t sleep with them. I think you know, number one, don’t underestimate what you already know, which is like now you have some knowledge in the back of your head about sleep. And sleep is a behavior, which means it can be changed at any time. So you can essentially do what you want. You A lot of people will just feel like I’m taking these newborn snuggles until four months, and then we can worry about it then. or longer if you want, like you just don’t have to make any decisions until you want to. And I think that like with both is my kids I never knew like, with with winning, I didn’t really think about I did think about sleep, that’s a lie. I read everything about sleep. But I did it and it just worked. And so it was never a stress if that if that makes sense. It’s like oh, I do this and you sleep and Okay. And then it just got better. I think that like, Don’t let your fear of what happened with re impact this experience. I really believe in doing what you want and following your gut. And that might mean like, I want to sleep train it for months, or I’m enjoying this right now. And I’m coping and we’re co sleeping. And this is what I want to do until I don’t want to do it anymore. Just like with be like, when you got to the point where you didn’t want to do it, you made a change. That’s really My advice for everyone. If it means like you don’t want to sleep train ever, then and you’re sleeping and everyone is doing well honestly, like have matter. But if it does get to the point where your hair is falling out, you’re stressed all the time you feel exhausted. I felt it a lot sooner. I remember with Winnie waking up being like I cannot wait to feed you in the middle of the night. And then with Nora, I was like, again, you’re waking again. Because there are a lot of like you can’t really do any formally sleep training until four months, you can do some newborn strategies. It takes about six to eight weeks before you’re seeing any big changes. But they’re very slow, steady, non cry anything. And they may work they may not depending on the development of your baby. So you’re really kind of stuck anyway until four months. So what I would say is like, try some things. But don’t kill yourself if they don’t work because it’s really hard to work with a newborn. And then you can make all the decisions that you want after four months provided bV is eating well growing on their curve. And just a side note, if you had a prodigious supply with your first I had like I had a very intense supply with my first I had soccer balls on my chest and my midwife did not believe me and I was like feel this and she’s like, Oh, we need to get to a pump. Like Yes. So it’ll probably happen.
Unknown Speaker 29:39
That happened with us and then I this is like so much information for anyone listening but here we go new moms. Here it is. Here it is listen about the anatomy of my nipples. They’re small and kind of flat and B has a slightly recessed jaw with a coconut style boobs soccer ball. ever you want to call it? She couldn’t there was like no give so to her she like didn’t have the reach, whatever. So she was like you need to pump to get your boob to like, tenable for her to be able to latch. And then every time she was latching after pumping, I like was bleeding, like straight up. Yeah. So then if you want to keep breastfeeding, just pump, that’s fine. But I encouraged an oversupply with how much I was pumping.
Yeah, I did too.
Unknown Speaker 30:30
So I think it was kind of a self fulfilling prophecy a little bit and I just stopped pumping last week, which is like a huge,
that’s massive. I know.
Unknown Speaker 30:40
And I was I got down to like, twice a day for a long time. So it was like, not a huge commitment, but my body. I’m actually busy with this other thing. And my supplies like dipped down but I hope to have a better breastfeeding journey this time. And I think I changed it to because waking up in the middle of the night to pump is depressing for me. Like waking up getting going to see some people have totally, like boobs alone while my husband’s like,
all night. It’s Have you ever seen that? It’s like this woman looking at her husband be like you and your useless nipples? Yeah, it kills me every time. You’re like I do that mean,
Unknown Speaker 31:28
it was I actually made? No, I do share the sentiment. But yeah, I love everything you just said about like, embracing it as it comes. I think like I said earlier is like a type A, I like want to plan for these for this baby. Like, how big is it gonna be? When is it gonna arrive? What is it? Like called my ob obsessively today being like, do you have the results? And they’re like, we will call you calling?
Well, I will say that, um, kids will break that about you. I was like, I don’t know, I’m type A but I always needed to have a plan. And I still kind of do. But now I’m more and more comfortable not knowing there’s nothing like having kids and living in a pandemic to really break you.
Unknown Speaker 32:17
Yeah, I’ll agree with that. I’ll agree with that. And there’s like so much beauty and just like letting it happen. So I definitely B has taught me that a lot. Which is, which is a really beautiful thing. But yeah, I do feel very empowered with the information I have from us working together. Like, I still sometimes if I need encouragement that B can like move mountains, I’ll look back at our spreadsheet and be like, this is the first night she woke up, however many times whatever, whatever. And then she slept through the night on the second night. Yeah, she was like, I get it. I learned Yeah. And I think I shared with I like put this in my like Instagram story to share with friends. But I think there’s I felt that was I think the first time I realized, like my anxieties had held her back, like something that was stressing me was dwarfing a skill that she had the ability to do. And it’s really kind of shifted my thinking about how anxiety affects, like how I think, because I don’t want to get her way. And I felt like I was I was. So I think it was really empowering for me as a parent to be like, Okay, let me zoom out a little bit and assess if this is a me projecting thing, or her needing me thing. And in this in some cases, for sure your baby needs you. Absolutely. That’s normal and healthy. Yes. But in this case, she was ready for, for a new skill and to learn new skill and
I don’t know,
Unknown Speaker 33:48
it just really I felt very brave. Like I felt like a very brave parent. And it felt like she was very brave. Learned rite of
Unknown Speaker 33:57
Unknown Speaker 33:58
did. Like my parenting mindset, doing something like this to be like she’s so capable and me to actually, you know, yes,
yes. Yeah. Heck, yes. Yeah. Well, maybe I could talk to you for 400 years as a fee to everyone. But as you know, I like to keep this episode to the time of a crap nap. And we are headed in 33 minutes. And so if your baby is not up yet, you may be having a good nap. And you no longer need to watch us. Yeah, exactly. But that I I’m so glad that you came on. I’m really glad that you shared your story. I think this is going to be a really popular episode. Because you’re so honest, and it really is indicative of a lot of the stories that I have. And so as always, I’d like to remind you, everyone, if you do want to find out more head over to babies besley.com instagram.com slash babies best sleep You can always book a call with myself or a member of my team at babies best sleep.com and you can be like Meg sleeping baby. Yes. Thank you Have a good one. Bye